No heat, coolant normal, no codes, AC blows

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by furok23, Feb 15, 2023.

  1. furok23

    furok23 Junior Member

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    Aloha Friends,

    Diagnosing my gf's car. As the thread title so eloquently states, here are my symptoms:

    1. No heat
    2. No codes from OBD2 reader
    3. AC blows just fine, so doesn't appear to be the often culpable blower motor, fuse
    4. Coolant is present in the radiator and to my knowledge there have not been any coolant leak smells or drips under the car. I assume this HVAC circuit is continuous through the whole car but I am clearly not intimately familiar with this.

    I am tempted to conclude heater core needs to be replaced, however extraction is a bitch and a half to get in there so looking at reasonable alternatives.

    Potentially relevant:
    5. NiMH HV hybrid battery died 2 weeks after this heating problem was discovered. I am in the midst of battery replacement efforts on this, and we're trying to decide if the extraction labor, DIY refurb, and replacement cells costs are worth it, or if this heater issue will cause more issues down the road and thus make this repair effort uneconomical.

    2007 Gen 2 with 201k miles

    Thanks for any and all help!
     
  2. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Not sure why your mentioning the ac system with the engine coolant loop as they have nothing to do with each other.

    Any coolant issues on this car is not good. Check the water pump belt and the radiator level. See if the pump weep hole is leaking bad by green flecks all over the belt area. Check rad level not the overflow tank.

    The fact you have no heat means there is no coolant circulation in the engine so be very afraid here as that may mean the coolant is not circulating and like a nuclear reactor the engine could severely overheat and you would not know that (no temp gauge!) till you see a thermometer icon on the dash and that means sorry too late the aluminum head is warped and engine needs to be replaced.

    i would not drive this car till you figure it out. No temp gauge you have no idea whats going on. Good idea to own a Scan gauge in these circumstances.

    Good Luck. This issue here has blown many a G2 motor.
     
  3. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Are you checking the coolant level at the radiator? Removing the radiator cap to take a look? Don’t look at the coolant reservoir as that doesn’t tell you if the radiator has enough coolant
     
  4. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    In winter you need to drive at least 25 minutes to be certain the heater core is getting hot coolant... Usually people don't drive far enough to get to this point and their problem is a heating element that's designed to provide heat before the engine warms up. So checking that fuse and that heating element is the next step after confirming the cabin air filter isn't clogged.

    Another thing worth looking into is the valve systems for moving hot coolant around. There's a three way valve that fails fairly often. You'll notice it usually working when you hear the heat storage pump running after you turn the car off. Or if its broken it will make weird clicking sound like an old computer's floppy disc drive. The pump has a position sensor that fails and not sure how that interacts with the heater core, but you need to go through the whole system once you've confirmed engine temperature is all the way up via a phone app with OBD2 device.
     
  5. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    Well, at this point you can't do much to diagnose the heater until the HV battery works (enough) to be able to start and run the engine. As mentioned - be sure the water pump drive belt is ok. I know you said radiator level was ok - just gotta double check because some people look at the overflow tank and don't actually pull the radiator cap to see what's inside.

    When the engine can run I would force it on (ready - turn the heater on, or hold the gas pedal down) while monitoring engine coolant temperature (ECT) with your OBD2 device.

    Normally temperature should rise slowly (while the engine runs) up to around 180°F then level off for a bit. Eventually it will go up to around 205° or so before the radiator fan turns on. You could indeed have problems with the heater core, but gotta check if the rest of the cooling system is good.

    Usually I would (carefully) feel both heater hoses with the engine and heater both on. With good flow both hoses should be quite hot to the touch. I don't recall which ones actually go to the core- need to look at a diagram.

    You could have a problem with the temperature air door inside the dash. One way to test is to turn the ignition on ( press the power button 2x without foot on brake - just be aware the 12V battery can run down quickly if you don't have a charger on it) or go ready if possible. Turn the heater on and twist yourself up to get under the left side of the dash.

    Up towards the center of the car above the gas pedal are 2 plastic motor servos with linkage bits behind them. The lower one controls the temperature door. Watch it for movement while someone else changes the heater temperature from full cold to full hot.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  6. furok23

    furok23 Junior Member

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    Aloha Friends,

    Thanks for the pointers! Working on getting the battery back up and and running this weekend, which should hopefully give me freedom to tackle the heating issue.

    @edthefox5 can you elaborate on why I should be concerned about the engine coolant loop if you say the cabin HVAC and engine cooling loop have nothing to do with each other?

    I don't see anything weeping from the water pump, which I believe to be a good sign. If it were leaking or having a problem, I would expect to see a pink residue building where the cast aluminum piece meets the belt pulley, right? See image below

    DD8F3F6D-2C72-4CA0-A03E-ABEEF9F18D3B.jpeg

    The below image notes the level I checked, which I believe is the radiator cap. Per my tracing of the lines, the cap I pulled went straight to the main radiator housing. This is in contrast to what I believe was the overflow reservoir which has a plastic cap labeled "coolant" and was a few inches to the right of the suspected radiator cap. The color and fullness of the radiator element that I observed was a little surprising to me, but it certainly wasn't empty.

    5AD0EE59-01E5-47E8-A602-0F99BAFE8F37.jpeg

    @PriusCamper I too suspected a possibility of valve failure, however upon researching, I concluded that should co-manifest with some OBD2 error codes, right?
     
  7. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    That is the correct place to be checking and the level is full. So you can check those boxes on your list.
     
  8. furok23

    furok23 Junior Member

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    Aloha Friends,

    High voltage battery problems solved. Turns out that the Valvoline to which my girlfriend brought the car for an oil change overfilled the oil. I'm not sure of the specifics, but supposedly overfilling the oil can trigger some sort of dysfunction having to do with air intake or mass airflow sensor, which puts the ICE in a sort of failsafe mode and pushes the car into EV only, which in turn runs down the battery. Test the battery and I am actually fairly satisfied with its charge/discharge characteristics and balance levels - should last for quite a while without needing any cell level replacements. Famous last words.

    Now back to the heating problem. Cabin heat still doesn't work, but HVAC is still blowing reasonable air speed. I open the coolant reservoir next to the inverter and I see flow, which is corroborated by my feeling flow at the reservoir output and at the inverter coolant line below the fuse box on the right side.

    Been driving it for the past 3 days, so far no check engine lights or OBD engine codes.

    Any pointers on where I should check out next?
     
  9. furok23

    furok23 Junior Member

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    Also potentially relevant, I noticed the car was making an odd sound, which to me sounds like pump or suction, coming from the how water side of the circuit. Don't know if it's related to the heat problem, but hoping it is so someone with experience can recognize it and provide guidance.

    It seems I was unable to attach a link in the previous post due to small number of posts associated with my account, so I'll post the video with weird sound when the mods approve these posts and I'm past the 4 post threshold
     
    #9 furok23, Mar 21, 2023
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2023
  10. furok23

    furok23 Junior Member

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    Lol looks like the mods didn't let the above post be two posts, so this is an effort to exceed the minimum so I can share the video.
     
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Can you post a recording?
     
  12. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    Did you run the engine while monitoring Engine Coolant Temperature with your scantool? It's nice to know that there is coolant hot enough to make the heater work.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  13. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    There's no failsafe mode the engine stalled because its way overfilled and oil got into the intake and choked the engine. Engine shuts off but usually the hybrid battery will work and allow you to drive for a while.

    Be aware that short drive on battery only is very very hard on the hybrid battery. Very high rate of voltage depletion and very high heat. if you have an original hybrid battery don't be surprised if it pays you back for this.

    Many times on this site people who have run out of gas drove till that battery died. Then your screwed. Car wont start and that battery will then have to be externally charged. Requires a high voltage charger. There available now but back then a special one had to Japan.

    We saw alot of that in the early days when idiots would run till the gas to the last drop to get the most mileage. Stupid is very expensive.

    Also It seems that the Jiffy Lube type joints are all using AllData books for cars oil capacity bible. The Alldata is wrong it shows 5 quarts for a G2 engine.

    The G2 engine takes 4 quarts with new filter.

    When I need a Jiffy Lube oil change I circumvent there nonsense and always bring them 4 quarts in a jug and the factory filter. They all say hey it takes 5 quarts I say that's nice were using 4 today.
     
  14. nemebean

    nemebean Junior Member

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    FWIW, I chased a no heat problem in my car for a couple of weeks last year. It turned out to be the three-way coolant valve, but it took a while before it triggered a code. However, mine was intermittent which may have had something to do with that.
     
  15. furok23

    furok23 Junior Member

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  16. furok23

    furok23 Junior Member

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    I haven't thought to monitor engine coolant temp, but I believe my OBD2 tool did have that gauge when I was exploring it. From my understanding, the engine coolant circuit and the cabin heat circuit were two different circuits, and shouldn't meaningfully correlate, right?
     
  17. furok23

    furok23 Junior Member

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    Very interesting. Did you determine any ways of testing said valve before determining it was at fault, or did you just replace it arbitrarily in hopes it was the root cause?
     
  18. nemebean

    nemebean Junior Member

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    I did not. After a couple of weeks of chasing various things, it finally threw a code and I ordered a replacement at that point. I suppose maybe you could check coolant line temps and see if it's cold going to the heater core from the valve? I didn't look into it too closely since before the code I thought it couldn't be the problem, and after the code I knew it was the problem.
     
  19. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    That is the sound of the coolant control valve "hunting". More information at this post.

    Maybe you were thinking of the engine and inverter/transmission coolant circuits being different? The engine coolant circuit is exactly what supplies your cabin heat.

    People sometimes get turned around because the (engine) coolant thermos and (engine) coolant control valve are tucked away more on the transmission/inverter side of the engine bay, close to the inverter coolant pump. But the thermos and control valve still belong to the engine circuit and the cabin heat.
     
  20. furok23

    furok23 Junior Member

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    Thank you so much for the corroboration and the pointer. Next step - replace the 3 way valve!