Gen 5 Prius Prime will charge almost twice slower than Gen 4 Prius Prime

admittedly, i know nothing about batteries

 

During discussions of the gen4 Prime when it was new, the charge times at about half of Japanese homes. Level 1 was over 10 hrs, or about twice as long as in the US, and Level 2 simply wasn't an option. Which is why the Prime there had CHAdeMO standard. Higher amperage service in Japan can also mean higher costs.

PS: isn't the max amperage for the gen4 PP EVSE 16?

The EVSE supplied with the Bolt EUV is dual purpose Level 1 & 2; it's an option for the EV. This is also how it has been with Tesla since the Model S.

 

Do we know what chemistry Toyota is using for the traction battery in the Prime?

Rumors are that they use Panasonic's LTO in the bz4x

 

The initial release of the Prius said it was a new battery, but no details on what makes it new. Odds are low, but it could be solid state for all we know.

The bZ4X has two different battery packs. A Panasonic in the FWD, and a CATL in the AWD. There are rumors of the CATL being LFP, but LTO for the Panasonic is new to me. Does Panasonic even make an LTO battery?

So does LFP, but there are trade offs to counter the lower energy content. Same with LTO. The seem to be safer than typical Li-ion, have more charge cycles, withstand fast charge rates, and can be charged at below 0C.

The Fit EV and one of the packs in the iMiEV was a Toshiba SCiB. It is on the high side of LTO energy density. The ability to be safely fast charged, and more effective regen braking, can make up for the shorter range. One commercially available cell can be safely charged down to -50C.
"The 20Ah LTO cell maintains over 80% of its capacity after 15,000 charge/discharge cycles at a tough charge/discharge rate(3C) condition."
- spec sheet here https://batterytalks.com/products/scib-toshiba-prismatic-2-4v-20ah-cells

IIRC, a downside reported when the iMiEV first got them was in the higher cost over Li-ion.

 

see, this is why I am working on getting the chademo japan spec parts now. Also believe I can get my hands on a 6.6kWh charger.
that said, no one mentioned here unless I missed it.. the Rav4 Prime has either a 3.3 or 6.6 charger option. is all discussed here solely speaking on the 3.3 charger? the theory I want to test, if a prius has a 6.6 charger, what benefits would be noticed.

i'd like to think the US Prime getting larger battery should have a 6.6 charger option else, Ill figure out how to make it work...

my main thought before posting was, you all just saved me some headaches as I've been trying to source the battery from a bZ4x and... did not know the batteries were different between the two drivetrains. basically means I need the FWD battery to use the cells in the theory tests I have in my head. also means, I believe... in the RX500h and all of the AWD vehicles... they are using the CATL... hmmm. Also guessing this is how they achieve the "boost" from the new inverters.... I digress, good stuff here.

 

A 6.6kW in the new Prime should get the charge time close to the 2hr 10min of the old one with Level 2.

The Rav4 was 3.3kW in the lower trims in the US. The 6.6kW is now standard in all, as it was in Canada. Both had their own blower and duct work for cooling, which the Prius may or may not have. I don't think the Prius battery cooling method has be confirmed either. If things get too warm, the charge rate will slow.

I'm not seeing the value in installing CHAdeMO. It is an orphaned standard in the US. Might not be much of an issue in your location, but odds are the number of chargers will decrease. It will very likely also cost more than gasoline along with putting strain on the battery. CHAdeMO is standard in Japan because most residences are limited to just Level 1, and the service supply to many of those could mean the charge time is as long as charging up a BEV at Level 2 in the US.

 

so that we are in sync... new prime, meaning gen 5?

for me, and the goal of 50kWh+ (if I can get ~70kWh of "usable" a kid in a candy store I would be) and charging in 45mins means I will attempt every possible fathomable option I can to reach my goal.

that said, my research has shown using the cells in the bZ4X I can change my Gen 1 and Gen 2 prius with the right components from a Japan spec and possibly another bms, which haven't gotten to yet..

not sure if you know.. 2.0 engine swap.. accident... prius owners mad at me because custom parts no one else makes is taking longer than their expectations... lots of balls in the air..

at one of those green unique parking spots I see, the 71.4kWh battery in less than an hour. After reading this thread it clicked! the differences in batteries between the two are what allows the FWD and the battery cells that will work in a Prius(I can't wait to see what in the Gen 3 Prius PHEV and the new integrated PHEV controls) to charge at 150kW versus 100kW... the path of being able to modify the system as everything is telling me, with my Frakenstien Gen 1 PHEV and the Gen 2 PHEV I have, when I get the Gen 3 PHEV its going to tell me a lot about what can be done with all this new car tech. Because now... should I use a new NX500h inverter.. with the unique "boosting" ability it has would that mean using the hybrid max motor.. I have a twin turbo "boosted" hybrid? with AWD??

That said, in California.. where we can't own a P90... smoke flavored vapes or menthol cigs... we can full up our hydrogen-powered vehicle and when they ban all gas powered vehicles then the masses leave. I can drive my Tesla eating (not PLAID.. yet) at a red light AWD twin turbo boosted Prius that's been driven around the world with less traffic... true story all except banning all gas vehicles, which.. I don't put past them...so for me, charging my ~71kWh PHEV Prius in a solid hour... is epic as this battery helps power the rear awd motor I use (which has a higher hp/tq output than the motor in Rav4 Prime), it would also mean when the battery config I've chosen for say a 2018 Prime... the conversion kit to get 100mile range on a full charge is closer to reality than I can tell you arent seeing as I am. I'll help open your eyes...

 

plus... all of the charging scenarios in all of these vehicles are toyota conservative.. so.. me.. making it so the charge time is significantly faster as the risk of.. heh.. bad things happening, I am okay with as, it's for the culture...

modifying the 50% SOC from 51kW charge back to the 16% 88kW and keeping it through 85% SOC... is something I want to see the impacts of. Could I get to 94% SOC faster. I'd need that 94% to get id hope 3-5 pedal-to-floor launches from my rig before it's time to charge again.

 

gen-5-prius-prime-will-charge-almost-twice-slower-than-gen-4-prius-prime

This is the kind of FUD that masquerades as science. It's based on the assertions that:
1) there is a valid sentence buried somewhere in the thread's title.
2) throwing around terms like "the C rate" makes point #1 irrelevant
3) that there is a need to pay the overhead needed for cooling / heating the battery pack while charging at high rates, even if the car will not need to be charged till after the evening news.

It also totally ignores that "twice slower than" is meaningless unless you put boundaries on what's being measured.

 

Even by the weak logic used in the original post, he claims the new Prime charges at 3.5 Amps and the old one charged at 3.3.

How that is twice as slow is never explained, nor can it be.

It is possible the OP is complaining the battery is twice as large (as if that were a bad thing) in the most obscure way possible.

 

Think you have the wrong units.

 

Personally, I'd rather let the battery charge slower and potentially last much longer than have it charge faster and possible 'bad things happen'. But that's just me.

 

A sustained 3.5 kW is what I routinely see with my 2017 Prius Prime. Initial charging pulls are 14.8 A

When in Charge-Mode, I see an average rate of 7.2 kW.

 

I guess for me... i'd use that 7.2kW as often as I could, not concerned about any degradation, mainly because I'd get closer to the less than hour for a full charge I want... sure.. if my neighbor had the exact same specs, charged his car 1/2 the number of times I did and 3 years in my battery needed replacing and his didn't.. his not for another 2 years.. and this is documented all over the place... i might give it a second thought, but.. not making a decision based on something that could happen and we don't know if it will because all this is still new...

 

I don't care what your apple does. After all, they are the ones who cut the clock speed on older models without informing their customers just so that the battery would seem to do the same amount of work with a degraded battery. Do you care much time it takes my Prius Prime to charge? No? I'll tell you anyway. It takes from 10 minutes to 2 hours an 10 minutes to recharge starting at midnight every night.

Work accomplished per amp hour of charge is really what matters to me. Durability of the hardware matters to me. Longevity of the storage and charging system matters to me.

To put it in perspective, my level 2 charger at home takes from 10 to 130 minutes to replenish the power that I used since the previous charge. I get a bit over 4.5 miles per kWh under normal conditions and a bit over 6.5 kWh of charge pumped into the battery ( to 100% SOC). And that's what matters.