Black Friday - Exposing Americas Class system

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Nov 23 2006, 08:06 AM) [snapback]353479[/snapback]</div>

Why is it sad that somebody who wants to make double-time and doesn't particularly believe in the Jesus story (like yourself) is willing to work for some pretty good money? I doubt that anybody is forced to. As a pilot, I worked every holiday in the year at one time or another and it never caused sadness.

You've got to get out of the Washington overcast! Is there anything in your day to day life that makes you belly-laugh, slap-your-leg, laugh-out-loud happy? Depression can be fatal and THAT is sad.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alnilam @ Nov 23 2006, 06:45 PM) [snapback]353595[/snapback]</div>

Actually, in minimum-wage retail, workers are often given to understand that refusal to work holidays or undesirable hours will cost them their jobs. And they are not always paid the overtime required by law. They have no union to stand up for them, and they know that complaining probably won't get them redress, but will get them fired.

Spokane was raining today, but we're on the other side of the state from Seattle. Not especially dreary weather here at all.

And in fact, I was watching The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra this evening. The supper scene always makes me laugh so hard I go into a coughing fit.

You don't need to believe in god to prefer a slow-paced life. The blue laws, for me, were more about the pace of life than about religion.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alnilam @ Nov 23 2006, 09:45 PM) [snapback]353595[/snapback]</div>

HA HA HA!!!!

you're kidding me.... right?

it was made quite clear to me as a bottom-of-the-ladder, easily expendable (oh, that was made clear as well) useless customer service rep, that if i didn't work whatever holidays they demanded of me, they would find someone else to do my job. effective immediately. and they typically demanded new years eve, new years day, easter, july 4 weekend, labor day weekend, thanksgiving, christmas, you name it.

when i was in middle retail management, i also got roped into most holidays because you can't expect your employees to do stuff you won't do... and i was the management representative who got stuck representing all the other managers' willingness to work holidays...

some of those were 14 hour shifts. for a whopping $10.50/hour when i was at the bottom of the ladder. and i was lucky if that put me over the 40 hour overtime threshold. (in management i was salaried with no holiday bonuses) in either case, not nearly enough compensation for what i was missing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Nov 23 2006, 07:40 PM) [snapback]353603[/snapback]</div>

Good enough, but FedEx and UPS are not exactly anti-union bastions of worker exploitation. Quite the opposite. (It was mention of these two companies delivering on Christmas that we were talking about.) Christmas can work pretty well for some groups, to paraphrase Bar Bush.

The standard for all this was explained to me by a Jewish friend who said that the one sure place to find open in New York on Christmas was a Chinese restaurant, since they were even less observant of the holiday than the Jews. You want to find a rabbi on December 25th, go to the Mandarin Gardens. He'll be the guy in the black suit with double order of egg rolls!

Keep up the coughing fits! It's good for you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alnilam @ Nov 23 2006, 08:10 PM) [snapback]353608[/snapback]</div>

You think not? Those guys are pushed harder than the so-called "associates" at Walmart, if such a thing is possible. Sure, they are paid better, but they are given unimaginable workloads, and pressure like you wouldn't believe to deliver everything on time.

In Fargo I lived near the end of the UPS route. FedEx got to my place earlier in the day. But I'd log on at 7:00 a.m. and see that my UPS package was "out for delivery" and it would be delivered at 7:00 p.m. or later. And I'll bet that before they get out the door, they've already spent a couple of hours at least loading their truck and getting everything organized.

My mother runs a very small business that ships a lot, so she was on a first-name basis with her former UPS man. He finally quit working for them because the pressure was intolerable. Not just the incredibly long hours, but the pressure to accept bigger and bigger work loads. And I'm not positive about this, but I think UPS figured out a way to call the drivers independent contractors, so as to eliminate benefits.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Nov 22 2006, 07:55 PM) [snapback]353364[/snapback]</div>

That would be the 4th Commandment and some religions, ie. Seventh-day Adventist still honor that day. also some other religions such as Seventh-day Baptist, Orthodox Jews and others. It also points to God as the creator and a fairly wise fellow who saw that some would work themselves to death (Type A's) and not get that day of rest so needful in these high stress times.

Wildkow

 

Anyone have any idea if Black Friday turned out to be "in the RED" Friday?

My Mom and I went out. I spent less than $100, not sure what she ended up spending as we split up. I talked to her later and asked about traffic at the local mall. She said plenty of parking spaces and no waiting in long lines. I told her the traffic on the freeways had been very light. We're both wondering if sales sucked. Retailers count heavily on the Christmas Season and especially the day after Thanksgiving to put them in the Black. If sales were really bad we're wondering if they'll try to make up by offering some sweet sales before Christmas to lure buyers out of the woodwork.

Me? I started my Christmas shopping the day after Christmas last year. Both of my nephews are getting the Meguiar's stool/picnic cooler filled with Meguiar's car care products. I've picked up things as the year went. Finished the last of my shopping last night on amazon.com. And I'm good on cards, ribbons, paper, etc so no need to hit the after Christmas sales hard this year either. If I'm starting be become the norm, I wonder how the retailers are doing?

(I hate Christmas shopping/parking/crowds so much I *plan* not to visit a shopping mall from the day before Thanksgiving to after New Years. Only if the sales are really good or there is something I *really* want do I attempt the after Christmas chaos.)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Nov 23 2006, 08:07 PM) [snapback]353606[/snapback]</div>

The post concerned UPS and FedEx. Did you work for them? I'm not so naïve that I don't know that many are forced to work the holidays. Like myself as a junior pilot with TWA.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Nov 25 2006, 05:10 PM) [snapback]354066[/snapback]</div>

First reports are that it was a banner day among the retailers. Riots took place in several places as the hopelessly greedy clubbed each other for Elmo dolls or PlayStations.

While our men continue to die in Iraq. "Ask not what your country can do for you....."

But.....First things first.

Joyeau Noël et Bonne Année!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Nov 22 2006, 01:15 PM) [snapback]353165[/snapback]</div>

Hey Rick...the FED is we....the FED doesnt make money...its tax money...I'm not giving you or anyone else any more money for not working..

 

The division isn't just that one day of the week... back in HS, i worked at a local gym... During the summer, i was there, every day, at 4:30 to open the damn thing, and didn't get off until noon most days. hows that for sucking? i would have much rather been there one day (black friday) early than every day... But if i wanted to take a holiday off, i easily could, because i essentially made myself indispensable to their operation. Not everyone has this opportunity, but if you work hard enough, there are usually perks that go along with it. and if you aren't getting those perks, then it's time to look for a different employer.

And now, through hard work, i'm in a nice job, the pay is something like 10 times higher, and i can almost set my own hours (within reason) and take vacation pretty much whenever i want.

So i've seen both ends of the "class" spectrum - while i'd never go back, i also don't sit here and lament about how unfair it is to those poor people working on black friday, or who had to deal with the mobs when the PS3 and Wii came out. It's their job.

Life's rough. Life's not fair. Get over it, and get on with your own life!

 

Well said Evan... I'm actually starting to get a little upset about the holiday schedule here... We get holidays off while still getting holiday pay for them, but who says i want that particular holiday off? I'd much rather spend many of them working and have that many more floating vacation days...

 

I have always felt bad for those in the retail clerk positions. I was one myself while going to college (making $3.75 per hour about 25 years ago).
Rarely was I mistreated by customers back then. Boy, I bet times have changed for the retail clerk now.

 

GreenGuy...I was one of those retail people for a long time.....10 years in management. Yes.....I have a college degree; I'm not a loser. You need a college degree to be in management with most retail companies of any reputation (Limited Stores). You work longer and harder than your part-timers and assistant managers because you are the leader. There is no overtime, no weekends off from before Thanksgiving until after inventory in January. But.....you do what you have to do. You go in knowing that. Since I've left that career path, the hours have gotten even more ridiculous. And.....I really do feel sorry for those who have to open at 3 a.m. this Friday (Target) and others who will work until midnight or later counting down cash drawers, re-stocking shelves, folding t-shirts and driving home at 2 a.m. to start the rat race over again at 6 a.m. Be gentle with them; they are there to help, they really are!!!

 

I don't care what job you are in, management or retail, trash or treasure......It is a decision you make and those that take pride in what they do, no matter what it is, will be successful in their position/life, make the people they contact happier and be happier themselves. The folks that are never happy no matter what they do or have will usually stay that way. A pleasant response begets the same, nasty response get a like response.

Thanks to all those folks who do take pride in what you do. You really are appreciated.

 

I think you have a point. It is so easy just to be civil and decent to people when you are in the store. Let's try that, not because we feel sorry for them, but because they deserve it.

 

Yes, its so easy to be civil and polite to each other. But that has become a lost art now, we're supposed to carry on like a bunch of dickheads

 

This whole thread is based on a fallacy. Most companies do not give friday off, people use their vacation time if they want it off. I know I don't get it off, even though I'll be one of the very few people in the office building. I use my days off for hunting and fishing, not shopping.

And that's without getting into the socioeconomic or gender breakdown of who is actually out there doing the shopping on Friday. I guess I see retail as sort of a minor leagues for business. Most of us start there in our younger days.

 

Thread from 06...

WOW... talk about the second coming...

As for the topic... I now am employed by the State of Cali... I get Black Friday off and paid for... but I will NOT be in the stores then... that would just be stupid.