Featured Canada wants 20% of Auto Sales to be Zero Emission by 2026

For me, every time the ICE engine starts it reminds me of:

• children’s asthma rates near highways
• soldiers lost or mutilated in a futile effort to keep oil producing regions ‘calm’
• Speeding the loss of our civilization as our climate becomes more and more chaotic.

And I then start working towards my next BEV.

 

If you drive the prime back and forth to work which is 20 miles away, you would use the gas engine for about 15 miles of the return part of the trip. Given that it's about 2x as efficient as the average vehicle even running as a hybrid, you ended up using less than 20% of the fuel that someone with a 27 mpg car would have consumed on the same trip. Not a "big fail" in my opinion.

 

A gradual transition is more practical? I can see this all-or-nothing approach leading to pushback; heck it’s happening.

There are many ways to reduce gas usage. My wife and I currently practice one of the simplest: our sole car, a 2010 (hybrid) Prius, sees annual usage around 3000 kms.

 

Prashanta and Mendel, I agree with you. It's a big world with room enough for a lot of approaches to transportation.

You will never convince the I have to have it all or nothing crowd reflected in the post #21.

 

Probably worthy of its own thread, and knowing priuschat may already have seven such...

To those who don't like the engine starting in their PHEVs, isn't most of the problem found in the fossil fuel supply?

Imagine the same PHEVs on ethanol for example. Grow cane and beets this year, in the tank next year.

If PHEVs can mean that we don't need big batteries (and less of the brines and the mines, and the soldiers who will inevitably fight over them instead of oil wells) and if partial electrification means we don't need as much fuel overall, perhaps there will be a good fit in the future?

 

And improve rapid transit.

this is like sudoku solving: little nudges, here an’ there.

 

No. At least that's not the reason I dislike fossil fuels. It is the dependency that I dislike. For me, it really doesn't matter where the oil comes from, domestic or foreign, I just do not like not being energy self-sufficient.

Ethanol or electricity does not matter unless I can grow my own corn and turn it into ethanol, or produce my own electricity. The off-grid solar panel or off-grid wind turbine will be the closest in terms of self-sufficiency. But even that is still hardly 100%. I can't make solar panels myself, and I can't make battery storage myself. But if I can live a simpler life, I would not need much technology to accomplish self-sufficiency. The challenge for me is not how to get "energy" without using more resources, but how to live without wanting or needing to use more energy.

 

I've heard the Volt intentionally burns gas so that it doesn't go stale in the tank. You probably want to refill gas 2 or 3 times just to keep it fresh.

 

They could if it was Russia or China. Canada is not going to ration gasoline, they will try to give subsidies and penalties to reach the goal. Capping sales requires a government that controls the refineries and stations.

Civilization is about trade offs, and we can't practically grow all our own food, build our own shelter, make our own cloths without sacrificing a lot. That is far from growing our own fuel, or building our own panels. I live in the city and am interdependent through life and work with others.

You can live off the grid and build your own stuff, but this is hard unless you live away from people. Police, Fire, Health require cooperation.

I would much rather have the grid become more renewable, and fuel become more renewable, than simply do without. Grid tied solar powers my can and air conditioning. My girlfriend has a SUV but only drives a few thousand miles a year. It is far from zero resources but to reduce to tiny levels I would have to move to a different climate, and have a different job.

 

Exactly. If civilization is tied to technology and resource hoarding, then my position is simply that the modern civilized world dependent on technology and resources is not all that better than an "uncivilized" simpler life without technology and the need/want to hoard resources. You said "sacrifice", but I prefer the simpler world and admire people who live "uncivilized" but in harmony with nature.

 

I think all above are great observations-
much more balanced and in line with most people's thinking.
A far cry from the entitled I have to have it all or nothing and I want it now crowd who have separated themselves from cooperative common-sense approaches that build consensus and cooperation towards a common goal that serve everyone's purpose.

 

Well, I can see where you might be more satisfied with a battery-only car and your own solar panels for generating capacity. And I'm not criticizing your approach at all, I think it would be of general benefit.

Lots of ways to skin the cat!

 

Yep , a Prius Prime is a plug in Hybrid not a BEV so people running only in EV mode for a year will probably think that they are smart ! .....but the gas going stale....corroding the fuel pump ,,,,injectors .....and fuel line will bring them to a reality check.
The gen 5 PP will certainly get contaminated easily with the increase of EV range.
The electric range anxiety could become the stale and corossive range anxiety

 

That's unlikely. There are strategies which force the ICE to be used periodically. There's nothing forcing the owner to fill the tank entirely either. You run in Charge-Mode from time to time or actually travel somewhere. With a range of 40-ish EV miles, it's hard to believe an owner would never, ever find reason to venture more than 20 miles from home.

 

And what of the additional cost of the battery car and the solar panels. How many miles or years does it take to break even? Include the amount that should have earned in an alternate investment in the calculations.

 

My payback on solar panels and dryer outlet for the car, is about 11.5 years, and they are guaranteed for 30 - I have 8 years to go. My efficient air-conditioning uses a lot more electricity than my car. Sure there are better investments, but .... my gf likes to keep the house cold, so when I got the car I installed the solar. In California I'm sure the payback is faster, in Georgia slower, YMMV. I'm sure the LED lights I have have a long payback too.

The car? Well for an equivalent sports sedan there really wasn't a premium in terms of tco, its likely lower. It was a lot more than my ten III Prius, but I like it a lot better too. Saving money in the short term is not the reason to get such a vehicle. A bolt is quite affordable but not as desirable. In the next 5 years I expect prices to drop, but right now with lack of competition and high demand prices are high.

 

Well John , I was just doing some millage (no pun intended) on Tideland Prius post no 33 ,the last part
and yes you are right about no need to fill entirely , and use charge mode.By the way , after 1 year of ownership I can report 10500 km and 1.6 Km/ 100km of gas or transated in US metrics, 147 miles per gallon for 6600 miles.
So I burn a full tank of gas every season.(3 months) and I think it is a good practice for a PHEV

 

The way I read it, @Salamander_King wants to do it that way because he wants a step closer to energy independence. Break-even and derivative comparisons to alternate investments don't appear to have any bearing on his decision.

Might still be interesting to calculate as a curiosity though.