Winter tires saved the day

I had Michelin X-ice on both of our cars, on Prius Prime X-ice3 and on Pathfinder Hybrid X-ice 2SUV. Both were excellent snow tires. After trading in both cars for a new Escape PHEV last month, I had to shop for a new set of snow tires for our new FWD compact SUV.

I was surprised to find out how expensive their new X-ice Snow are for the stock 18" wheels. Yeah over $200 each. I ended up downsizing the wheel to 17". Got four used rims from eBay for $432. Then after searching I ended up ordering a set of Bridgestone Blizzak WS90 from Discount Tires of America for $482 total. I had a set of Autel programmable TPMS. The installation cost was $18 per tire. Expensive, but after driving on dedicated snow tires for some years, there is no way I will drive or more importantly let my wife drive with stock all seasons on snowy roads again.

I drove a short trip on fresh slush. So far Blizzak are as good as X-ice.

 

I will never drive in the winter without them. They are inexpensive safety insurance IMO.


iPhone ?

 

Before a.recent furnace failure, I had ordered these tie-wraps for emergency, one-time, chains:

I now carry them in the Tesla.

Bob Wilson

 

I’ve heard the rubber on aging snow tires hardens up, is less grippy. Our Michelin X-Ice2’s are 12 years old now (yes… ), and last night, had to stop-then-start on a snowy hill: not so good. Just a shade over 6/32” tread too. New ones next fall.

 

Here are the chain alternatives currently approved by the Washington State Patrol:

https://www.wsp.wa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ATD-Approval_Webpage.pdf
http://www.wsp.wa.gov/traveler/images/traction/alt_traction_device.pdf

 

So autosock or snow chain over dedicated snow tires give better traction? AFAIK, we have no chain law in our state or any place I usually visit that requires the use of tire chain or alternative devise. We can use it I believe, but I have never seen a car wearing them.

 

Hi , I notice that you live in BC Greater Vancouver , so I understand you keeping your winter tires for so long . Where I Iive, winter tire are mandatory , 6/32 inch and 10 years are considered end of usable range and has to be replaced .
Be carefull ,your Michelin-X ICE2 ... are really Michelin No-ICE tires

 

All West Coast states (and probably all states from the Rocky Mountains westward) have mountain passes that occasionally have foul conditions for which their Departments of Transportation will post winter traction requirements. Each has multiple stages, from winter traction tires advised, to required, to chains required on 2WDs, to chains required even on AWD/4WD, to "road closed".

Here is Washington State's stage description, starting about mid-page:
https://wsdot.com/travel/real-time/mountainpasses/tiresandchains

This page is just for commercial vehicles (which must wear chains earlier than required for passenger cars, and carry chains in winter even when not required to wear them), but lists all the WA highway sections that commonly or are likely to get a Chains Required posting:
http://www.wsp.wa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Chaining-Requirements.pdf

The penalty for not wearing chains when required is at least $500. I haven't actually seen a chain checkpoint in many years, the pattern now seems to be to trust drivers on the honor system, then hand out tickets to offenders who crash or get stuck and need assistance. But the rate of highway closures caused by chainless offenders keeps climbing, and was been very high this year. A couple passenger vehicles buried in the shoulder's snow berm generally won't close the highway, but a dozen of them will. Or a single commercial truck jackknifed across all lanes will do the trick, though usually it is multiple trucks, the extras unable to stop before barreling into the first.

I think I-90 / Snoqualmie Pass had 47 hours of closures this season for 'multiple spinouts and collisions' before official winter even began, and entirely for driver misbehavior. Officials were getting very cranky and threatening harsher enforcement. It wasn't until late last week that it had its first closure for natural reasons, severe avalanche conditions. Avalanche control is usually done in under a couple hours, but for safety reasons they sometimes must wait hours or days before even considering trying.

 

I understand that there are states in the west that require chains under certain weather and road conditions. But I have never driven in any of those states.

I checked my state law. It has no "requirement" to use chain or winter tires. Naturally, I have not seen any cars wearing tire chains even though we get an average of 50"-110" snow during the season.

But my question was not about the law. I was wondering if snow chains over snow tires give better traction than snow tires alone? How about autosock over snow tires? It seems the law requirements suggest chain and autosock are superior to snow tires. But is that true? Any data?

I have seen enough YouTube videos demonstrating the superiority of dedicated snow tires over all weather tires or all season tires. But never seen a comparison between chained vs snow tires.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

The problem here isn't snow depth, but what happens when many vehicles drive across new-fallen snow that isn't much below freezing. It doesn't take many vehicles, especially trucks, before it becomes very hard packed, then transitions to ice, then armor plate. A few degrees warmer, and it can accumulate as a thick greasy slush.

110" would be a very low year for Snoqualmie Pass, which averages 237" and has had 470" within the past dozen years. It occasionally receives your 50" in a single event. Stevens Pass averages 325" according to a third party source, though untrustworthy Vail Resorts is claiming 470". Both were well above average the past two years, even beating their all-winter averages by the first week of January early this year (i.e. last season).

But snow depth is not much of an issue on our highways. Either the plows shove it off, including scraping off as much of any underlying compact snow and ice as possible, or the highway gets closed when the available plows can't keep up. A Prius should never have ground clearance problems on the main highways, unless it gets caught out there before DOT can close the road. Streets are a very different matter, as most towns and cities have comparatively few plows.

I don't remember ever seeing anyone ask about the superiority of chains vs snowtires until now. For those who have watched both in action, the answer seems so clear that no further discussion is needed. I don't believe our snowplows and graders bother with studs, but go straight to chains.

Do remember that driving on chains any significant distance on bare roads is an ordeal, and the chains won't last long. Take them off within a couple miles after getting out of those conditions, and go back to just winter tires for the rest of the trip. Or even A/S tires, for those too cheap or who don't cross the mountains often enough to want to pay for real winter tires.

 

Sounds like the use of chain is for very localized extreme conditions only. Conditions which we are not likely to experience on any roads I usually travel.

I was wondering if having chains or autosocks in the back of my car is warranted in our region. But I think the answer is probably no. That is unless I decide to build a cabin on top of a mountain on an unplowed private road and visit it in the middle of the winter. We do have the Appalachian Mountains range running across our state, but I really can't think of any place where weather conditions get to be like the top of Mt. Washington.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

The above annual snowfall figure was the first one I found. Another claimed just 20", but anyone who has stopped up there mid-winter, with snowbanks taller than most cars, would know that is absurd.

I'm seeing many sources showing 350" to 460", depending on source, year span, and probably highway vs top of ski hills, not that there is much vertical elevation difference for that particular set of ski hills.

 

We don't have any chain requirements for flat-ish lowlands or valleys or towns. When it gets that bad down here, they just close the steeper hills and tell people to stay home, which many do. Probably at least half the people here don't have good tires or significant winter driving experience, or lack the confidence to try. And it takes less than 1% to screw up and block everything.

I did see several sets of chain tracks on my street last week, before it was plowed. Maybe someone who needed to come up the nearby hill.

If chains were needed in your situation, you'd highly likely already know it.

If most of your winter is cold enough that fresh snow stays powdery and easily blows off the road, without sticking, then you likely don't need chains. Especially when staying on groomed public roads.

 

all I know is that dedicated snow tires will reduce Stopping distance by 25% over all weather tires .. ABS system will work better in awfull driving conditions.That is with 4 winter tires on the car

 

Yeah, I don't question the superior stopping ability of dedicated snow tires, although there seem to be some debates as to the advantage of studded vs studless winter tires on different winter conditions.

Even though I have lived in states near the Canadian borders all my life, I never used winter tires on any of my cars until my first studded winter tires that came with the used Civic HCH purchased ~11 years ago. Yes, with the studded snow tires on, the traction on the snowy or icy roads was excellent. Until then I did my fair share of slipping and sliding on snow or ice with the all-season tires on my previous cars, but it was manageable without dedicated snow tires. Luckily no major accidents. It was mostly the high cost and inconvenience associated with the snow tires that kept me from using them. But with the studded snow that came with the car purchased, I had no choice but to buy another set of all-season tires to do the seasonal swap.

I was convinced of the studded tire's capability on ice and packed snow, but in the area I live, the roads are snow-covered only a short time during and maybe a few days after the storm. Studded tires were very noisy and uncomfortable to drive on dry pavements. So for the subsequent cars, I switched to studless snow tires. I have only used X-ice on all of our cars since then. I have been very happy with the X-ice traction on snow and ice, but more so with its quiet and comfortable ride on dry pavement. On top of that, I did not see any mpg hit with X-ice on HCH, Gen3, and PP. So, I know what good winter tires can do. My recent purchase of studless snow for Escape was Blizzak WS90. I've had them less than a few weeks, and have driven on snow only once. Blizzak is as quiet and comfortable as X-ice, and handled snow very well. I will see how long the tread will last. That seems to be one weak point of Blizzak compared to X-ice. But for close to half the cost of the current X-ice Snow SUV, I can buy two sets of Blizzak, so if it last more than three seasons, I will be happy.

What I was wondering was even with dedicated snow tires on, do I still need a chain or an alternative device like Autosock for my car? As I said, I have never used them before and have never seen any cars using them. That brought a question on the validity of the snow chain or chain alternative being superior to the dedicated snow tires for the safety of driving a car on a snowy, icy road. From the information provided by @fuzzy1, I probably have never driven in an area and condition that "required" a chain on my car. And I probably do not need to use them on my car for drives I do in the areas I travel.

That being said, since chain or Autosock are not very expensive, and compact enough to store, even though it is very unlikely I will ever need to use it, I may still buy some Autosock and throw it in the back of my car for emergency situations. I am sure it will be similar to other emergency items like a spare tire, tire repair kit, portable inflator, battery jump pack, emergency blanket, first aid kit, water, high cal non-perishable food, and a few emergency use tools that sit in the back of the car and will not get used. But it is always better to be prepared and have those emergency items than not have them.

 

There was one time I slid, slowly, right off the side of a narrow road, and was there for a solid hour of nonstop exertion before I got it successfully pushed back onto the road.

Part of the reason it took so long may have been that I completely forgot I had Autosocks in the back.