A Missed Opportunity to Reach the Magic Number- 60 MPG

My 2000 Honda Insight isn’t difficult to surpass 80mpg

Prius is 22 years behind

 

how are you calculating 80 mpg. that’s 31 more than the epa estimate….

 

The Prius needs to improve not just in fuel economy, they need to improve in all other areas as well. In terms of economy, the Prius has maintained and improved! But I believe Toyota is improving on the C02 footprint involved in the manufacturing of Prius as well. Toyota has situated itself to reduce manufacturing costs across all its vehicles by reducing complexity. There newsletter mention reducing 800 engine types down to only 17. All part of the Toyota TNGA.

I think what that means for us is that Toyota will reduce complexity through standardization. Prius now includes the ultra luxury power rear hatch and moonroof/solar panel roof.

For example in the past Gen3 to Gen4 saw improvements such as a new double-wishbone rear suspension over the older torsion-beam design. This greatly improved handling and drivability of the Prius. While also increasing safety. But likely did not improve or reduce fuel economy. So why not include this? Likely it decreased fuel economy due to added complexity of double-wishbone over a simpler torsion beam design.

I believe standard 17inch wheels across the line over 15inch wheels will improve upon cost and have shown to impact fuel economy minimally. The 17inch and 19inch options will maintain or improve fuel economy while also increasing driving dynamics, allow for larger disc rotors (greater safety), and improving cornering stability.

Less play between the road and the wheels = better handling and greater stability. Toyota has reduced the weight in some areas of the vehicle and increased weight in other areas. Overall the increase in wheel size and thus increased in wheel weight will have a minimial impact on overall fuel economy.

Everything is to say that the Toyota Prius is more balanced than ever before I think. Impact to fuel economy is minimal, while safety, luxury, handling, and overall manufacturing complexity has improved!

Of course they could reduce wheel size back down, but then it would seem like a contraction to other drivers and a step backwards. I don't think Toyota engineers would do that with the Prius. They are always looking for improvements and to raise the standard where they can.

 

Surpassing 80mpg in an Elantra hybrid isn't difficult for some, and it has a rear seat.

 

I’m guessing you mean you do better, but could you clarify? Is this calculated, or the car’s fibometer?

I’m a little more cynical, think they’re all about profit. Looking at the new offering, I suspect they’re trying to relegate Prius to niche status. Doubly so in Canada: see the thread on what we’re in for.

 

with sales the last many years, it's already niche status

 

It was niche before that. Most of its past sales success was due to high fuel prices while not having any other efficient competition. Now you get near Prius efficiency from other Toyota hybrids that many consider 'normal' cars.

Since Toyota doesn't seem to be planning a BEV version, niche is the only way for the Prius to survive. It is already PHEV only in Europe. Going the way of the Aqua in being just a Japan plus model isn't far fetched for the Prius.

 

no corolla hybrid hatchback though

 

In North America, nor any wagon type at all.

They are available in Europe, and without an import tariff, which is why they are only getting the Prius PHV. Also available in Japan, which is why the Prius is moving away from the practical people mover to something a little more exciting.

 

I can't hold it in anymore.

The Prius has become the new Celica.

 

Well, the Scion tC hasn't been available for some time.

 

According to my records over 13 years, the car shows 6-7% higher than actual.

 

I calculate with a spreadsheet. In the warmer months, my commute average MPG is something like 70mpg on Ecopias. During the cold months, its about 60mpg.

According to my spreadsheet, median MPGs is 64.57 over all fillups. Max is 70.91 and lowest I've seen is 54.82. So if the Gen 5 gets 57 mpgs, I should be able to do 65 or better.

 

That’s admirable. Doing a fair number of milk-runs with our 17” OEM’s, with 3rd gen, we’ll never be in that league.

 

That's really great mpg! Downhill, both ways? (The best I ever got was 60 mpg, but that was coming down from the Rockies!)

 

A few observations as a long time Prius owner (but not especially a fanboy):

Nobody cares about 60mpg outside of this forum. It's not a missed opportunity to not hit that number, it's a savvy trade to jam in features, power, and ride quality (that most non-Prius owners care about) at the expense of 3-4mpg. 3-4mpg might sell a few dozen cars. Increases to ride quality and power might sell a few thousand.

I've owned 7 Prius now. The last I picked up a few days ago, a used 2018 Prime Plus. It's light years ahead of Gen3 - greater power, greater comfort. The display is actually readable and useful. It's loads quieter than the two 2014s I had (now down to one). If Gen5 is incrementally that much better inside and that much better looking, it will be a fantastic car, and you won't have to be a multiple Prius owner like me to see it.

Keep the 60mpg tuna can, give me something pretty and capable at 57mpg.

 

I think Toyota made the right call here.

They could have soldiered on with tiny tweaks. Continue to put mpg above all else, and produce a somewhat homely car that went to 60 in ten seconds, maybe getting 60 mpg. In a day and age where electric cars are rapidly becoming less niche, I don’t think that would have been a good move. Most of the ultra efficiency crowd is already going full electric, or will be soon. Chasing the last few people who want what the old Prius offered in the world of 2023…good luck with that. I suspect that more people will be turned on to the changes in the P than will be turned off.

Toyota had to do something to shake it up. They made a conscious decision to address the two things that kept a lot of folks from buying a P. They had to do something drastic to keep the P relevant. Give it decent performance, and make it attractive. Massive power increase, great looking shape, and still excellent MPG. Makes total sense to me, and I called my dealer as soon as the reviews hit, to get on the list. I would not have made that call if the new P had performance like our 2018 but got 60 mpg.

I’d have done the exact same thing had I been in charge at Toyota. Well, not exact. I think the 19 inch wheels are silly. But their overall strategy IMO is close to spot on, as is par struggle’s post above.