Gen 5 Prius/Prius Prime: poor fuel economy, poor choice of colors, poor choice of packages/options

there's nothing in my manual about freezing temps, and it's never been an issue except the engine sometimes fires up.
i have no idea if there's anything special, but we've seen lots of people buy pips and primes from cali drivers who never charged them because they only bought them for hov lanes. and there haven't been any reports of battery problems.
i would think if toyota wanted long term storage at 40%, they would have given owners the ability.

of course, there's nothing scientific about my observations, but i wouldn't hesitate to buy a plug in that has never been charged, as long as it passed my testing, like any battery vehicle.

 

My Volt said it did but has been fed cheap 88e15 over most of my ownership, drop in economy is nearly unnoticeable

 

Whst about the difference in batteries for the Gen 4. Toyota has decided the AWD Prius doesn’t need a different battery for the colder weather. Sorry I don’t recall the name of the battery and maybe I have my info reversed. I just remember the AWD version had a different battery.

I guess I’m primarily trying to avoid the big regret of not getting the Prime if/when my circumstances change. Heck…this could be my last car considering I’m not someone who can trade up every few years.

Do you think the seats are going to be noticeably lower? I keep watching videos. Sorry my questions are jumping from one topic to another. I’ve never been a fan of thr look or feel of low sports car seats.

Also disappointed that mpg didn’t increase and no rebates for 2023.

 

What the current manual says about the real cold(-20C or less) seemed more about general car operation, not specific to the battery per se. The general warnings about reduced performance, longer charge times, and maybe the car not starting in extreme cold. The charge time is because of the heater keeping the battery above freezing for charging, but the rest wasn't exactly spelled because of the battery, though all batteries have reduced performance when at such temps.

People stated getting the car for just the HOV stickers with no plan to charge, but I suspect they did some charging with California's gas prices. The concern I bring up is a very minor one. If it was the cause of battery issues in an older car, how would you confirm it was the cause and not some other variable?

Among older hybrids, it sounds like the ones not driven as often are more likely to have a battery issue. Batteries self discharge, and NiMH has some of the highest such rates. A hybrid spending most of the time parked could have its SOC dipping down into the lower buffer for extended periods.

Hybrids originally used nickel metal hydride(NiMH). The other companies started moving to Li-ion because Toyota had mostly cornered the NiMH supply. Toyota's investments also meant the cost for NiMH stay lower than Li-ion longer for them.

To last as long as the car, NiMH needs to be babied though. Honda didn't, and ended up with a poor hybrid reputation for awhile. Babying NiMH means only using about 40% of the total capacity, as discharging it lower leads to a shorter life. That means carrying a decent amount of dead weight. Li-ion can be discharged lower for without ill effect. The Li-ion and NiMH in the gen4 have about the same usable capacity. The Li-ion's higher energy density combined with that results in a pack about 30 pounds lighter than the NiMH.

Both chemistries can discharge in the cold, just at a reduced performance. Maybe the NiMH is slightly better there. Charging is where they are different. Li-ion cells should not be charged when they are at 0C; permanent damage could occur. NiMH doesn't have to worry about that.

So there is a slight advantage for NiMH in the cold. Not really a concern for most people though. The Prime has a little heater to keep the battery above freezing when charging. Discharging the battery will warm it up when starting in the cold, and when really cold, the car will turn on the engine right away, and reduce use of the battery.

Unless you regularly need to drive in -30C weather, the cold shouldn't be a concern. Which could be what Toyota was thinking about when giving the old AWD model NiMH, but they also like to get as much out of an investment as possible, including nickel mines and battery factories.

Li-ion may simply be cheaper than NiMH for them now. Earlier releases hinted at newer Li-ion for the Prius, but no details yet.

You appear to keep cars for awhile. If you plan to charge up the car occasionally, I wouldn't worry about the Prime's battery. Even if your situation doesn't change to allow daily charging, public chargers should become more common. I honestly think the main hurdle to a Prime over a Prius will be price.

 

You can lock the doors with the metal key in the fob, allowing the car to run while locked. I do this when I'm at a park and the Prius is cooking rice. I just leave it running but locked while I'm with others, until the rice is ready.

 

i think we're just going to have to be patient and wait until we can test drive one. i won't be making any hasty decisions, and i think it's going to take some time to ramp up supply

 

And it sounds like the Prime won't be here until the spring.

 

Wonder if you could import the Japanese 1.8 drivetrain and do an engine swap?

That should restore most of the lost economy but these won’t be as efficient on the highway with the larger CDa

and the “primes” configuration may change slightly by the time it sells here

 

Sorry, no that would not be legal in the US to do any engine swap, well at least until the car is 25 years old

 

Engine swaps are legal in Pa. As long as the engine is the same age or newer than the car.

There doesn't seem to be much trouble in getting an engine imported from Japan. Probably not worth the cost to get a new 1.8 for Prius though.

 

Thanks so much for explaining. Yes, if it wasn’t for this complicated inheritance thing, I’d be on my 6 months search for a 2015 and driving until it dies. : /

 

The pressure is on for me. I have to make decision before driving it. Obviously I can reject it before signing but I’ve passed in two 2022 Prius/Primes because I was holding out to see 2023. If the funding wasn’t time sensitive and my left headlight bulb wasn’t failing, I would wait to see cost of Prime. I would need XLE version of either car due to seats. The Prime won’t cost as much as Rave 4 Prime, right?

At least I’m set on color except wishing gray interior was a bit darker like my 2009.

 

The new Prime will be lower than a Rav4 Prime. The cost over the Prius will higher than between the 2022 models.
Going by the size of the batteries.

 

I envy you at the top of the list. I was told I’m about “halfway down” on a list of “not too many people” at my nearest dealer. They’ve been getting 1 or 2 allocations per month, so the list is very slowly going down. I also put my name in at a dealer about a 2-hour drive from here that has only had one Prius allocated since May. Ouch. It’s way up in the North Woods, though, so I imagine the demand for the Prius is low there.

Funnily enough, I did get a call from a nearby dealer with whom I had previously enquired on a 2022–a sale fell through on a 2022 Limited so they offered it to me, but I passed. I’m too smitten by the 2023 now. Haha.

 

no, the prime won't be close to the rav4 prime in cost. XLE should be in the high thirties. i have read there are still some 2022's in the northeast if you're desperate

 

Prime has charge mode that can charge to 80% full and do it faster than an L2 220 volt charger cable, but the gas engine has to run while charging in charge mode and it effects the gas engines MPG to one degree or another depending on the cars average speed. ambient temps, etc.. while in charge mode.
Personally, I wouldn't recommend using Charge Mode all the time, since regenerative charge is different in a few ways as opposed to the steady stream available from the grid.

It can be handy, especially when not used excessively.

upcoming vehicles - 2023 Prius Prime
2023 Prius Prime | Toyota.com

 

I haven't been following this thread.
Fwiw, used car trade-in prices have been tanking for 6+ months, and will continue to tank.
Carvana is also a snail's breath away from bankruptcy. Fwiw, that company was always a semi-scam Ponzi scheme. Just look at the histories of the founders.
If/when Carvana fails, expect used car trade-in prices to tank even more.

Imho, for people looking to buy a new/used car, YAA on youtube is the best place for real, up to date, info.
Imho, YAA has great info. But, they seem semi-clueless on how to fully utilize youtube for profit/views.

 

Thanks. Last couple of times I waited until the bulb died. It flickers for quite some time.

I also have to let go of the fear of buying the first Prius/Prime off the assembly line before they work through any issues that come up. I guess my circumstances require this risk.