Gen 5 Prius/Prius Prime: poor fuel economy, poor choice of colors, poor choice of packages/options

Come on Gokhan, you know that the American way of figuring fuel economy (MPG vs European L/100km) exaggerates what is actually a diminishing return. At 52 mpg you have already reduced fuel use by most of what's possible vs conventional vehicles. 60 MPG is mostly for bragging rights, would save about $6.00 per month over 52 mpg for the average driver. And that's with a regular hybrid. With a Prime it would be even less.

 

A spec sheet Danny posted said regular 87 octane.

 

I think this subject is complicated to say the least. Everyone's needs and wants are all different. In the end, manufacturers try to appeal to a big enough group of people to sell enough cars. Sadly, the most practical cars aren't the ones that get sold the most.

All I can say is what I would need and like.

• I would like a car that I can afford when my current car bites the dust.
• I've never seen the point of having so much power and performance, at least where I live. The way things sit right now I'd have a heck of a time just affording car payments on a new car let alone speeding tickets. Plus around town the speed limit is 25mph, and there aren't any on ramps around here either, just gradual increments of the speed limit as you leave each town, things I've had no trouble doing in a less-than-50-hp car.
• Fuel mileage is a must. Right now I spend more on fuel than my car payment even though it's a Toyota hybrid sedan.
• Why does VW have a system you can swap on winter tires with their own rims and not have to worry about the TPMSystem but Toyota doesn't?
• I want fog lights that actually work as fog lights.
• I hate all the things that the car "does for you" like shut off the heater's recirculation after a certain amount of time or turn off the parking lights when I turn off the car after a certain amount of time or not let me lock my door after I start my car to warm it up a bit at -30°F so now I have to sit in the freezing cold car because I didn't get the remote start package and someone could steel my car or I could get a ticket.
• Heated seats, front and rear.
• I like being able to tow a small trailer with a hitch that doesn't drag on the ground. I don't want to have to buy a pickup/SUV and a sedan if I want both good fuel mileage and a way of hauling things every once in a while.
• Why do I always end up with the cars that the touch screen infotainment center stops working every two years or so, even after paying to get it fixed? I don't know if I'll ever buy a car with a touch screen ever again.
• I need a spare tire!!! Cellphone service is still sparse out here and it takes days to get into a tire shop.

The new Prius doesn't really cover most any of those needs or wants except fuel mileage unless we compare it to an EV like a Chevy Bolt, which I could charge for practically free. But then of course there's the Prime.

 

You may want to check into the Bolt EUV version. It may have a tow rating.

 

Thanks! Too bad it costs more than the regular Bolt and I'm not a fan of crossovers since in my mind I want fuel efficiency, not head room, and bigger body means more energy to push air as stated by the V^2*A*D*Cd law. But if it's the best fit, it's the best fit.

The Bolt EUV needs a spare tire though for me. There goes the "better cargo capacity."

But ironically I'm complaining about something that hasn't happened yet. For me to need another car I would need to have lost my current car(s). In other words, if my car were totaled or if the engine threw a rod and the cost to repair were too high. Only then would I really have reason to complain about the options.

But I can complain about the options I had when I got this car and the problems I've had with it. A used 2013 Avalon hybrid seemed like the best option at the time. After I got mine the infotainment center started having problems, and again after being repaired by Toyota. Now I can't listen to my music and sometimes the climate controls don't so what I want. I hate the TMPS system not working in the winter when I put on my winter tires. I had to get a custom welded tow hitch to not have one that drags on the ground, and no, this car isn't rated for towing. Why does this car have fabric wheel wells that the ice and snow freeze solidly to? Other than that it's a nice car. I'm not sure if I could have done better with the same money. Maybe a similar year Prius v.

 

The fabric in the wheel wells is probably for noise reduction.

 

And something to watch out for when buying my next vehicle! These are utterly terrible. They don't seem to make the studded snow tires that much quiter either. At least the Avalon can use tire chains. I had to use them last week. And no, having an AWD would not remove then need for snow chains.

 

The Prius doesn’t need premium gas does it?

 

That's the rumor going around. I think there were specs (power or fuel economy or both) that had an asterisk saying they were done at 91 (r+m)/2 octane or something like that. So the new Prius may need premium gas to get it's full power.

 

What next…ugh.

 

If for no other reason, so I make a decision and stop agonizing? : )

This is the first time I’ve heard that there could be problems with driving a Prime primarily as hybrid with only a few charges per week. The only thing I’m excited about with the 2023 Prius is it’s appearance and having enough power to get onto the highway without being forced to stop first. So many drivers don’t move over and my 2009 doesn’t have enough power.

Those darn 19” tires and seats being a bit lower are bothersome.

 

Yes, that asterisk note seemed to suggest that premium fuel is recommended for full performance on 0-60 times, which I don’t think the average driver is going to care too much about.

This article says 87 octane gas is recommended (toward the bottom in the trim section):

Review: 2023 Toyota Prius rethinks high-mpg hybrid for stunning style

 

Where do you live that having snow tires and AWD isn't enough?

 

Colorado. Any time a Passenger Vehicle Chain law goes into effect it doesn't matter what kind of tires or vehicle you own, you have to put chains on. That and I'm a firm believer in that braking and cornering are also important, not just acceleration. AWD can help you get up a mountain pass, but if you need AWD and snow tires to get up it, it's probably going to be a scary ride going down it unless you have even more traction, hence chains.

 

91 RON,

If an engine can use higher octane for increased power, it can be used to improve efficiency. Just unlikely to be worth the price difference at the pump.

 

that conjecture by trollbait has no basis in reality, at least regarding toyota lithium. ten years of toyota plug ins, from pip thru prime have shown that lots of people never plug in, with no ascertainable harm to the battery.
toyota goes so far as to state in the owners manual, 'when not using the battery for long periods of time, leave the state of charge at the hybrid level'.

but in my mind, if you can't take advantage of the prime battery, there's no point to dragging the boat anchor around unless you can get a better deal, or it has different options you like, or you can get an hov sticker, which are reasons why so many people in the past have purchased them even though they had no place to charge.
now if you think you'll be able to charge sometime in the future because your circumstances change, that's a consideration.

 

My statement was in regards to never charging the battery for the lifetime of the car.

For long life from Li-ion, you want to limit the time at 100% and 0% charge. The battery management does this, but the point at which the grid charge is used up puts the battery well below the 40% charge recommended for storing Li-ion; likely around 20%. Leaving the battery at that point for years won't be good for it.

Having an EV charged up without a system for battery for cooling in a hot climate for extended periods is worse than having a low charge. Best is at 40% charge. That is the point that most Li-ion will last the longest. It is also around where self-discharging tapers off. Toyota didn't give the PP owner a way to charge to level below 'full', nor a storage mode, though. The SOC display is also just a graph; no voltage reading. So they say to store with the battery at hybrid levels, as the Leaf as shown how bad heat and fully charged can be for the battery.

If you are getting a Prime with absolutely no intention of plugging in, and keeping the car beyond three years, switch to hybrid mode at around half charge, or use charge mode occasionally.

If you simply don't have access to daily charging at home or work, but intend to make use of public chargers when you can, don't worry about it.

Maybe the new Prime will give the user more control over charging levels. It will have a larger battery, which means the level of the pack will be lower in hybrid mode than in the older model. Like the current Prime, the new one will likely do better in hybrid mode in terms of mpg over the noplug.

The more important consideration between the new Prime and Prius will be price. There isn't going to be be a federal incentive for the Prime to reduce that price gap. The bigger battery will mean a bigger gap, so any state incentives won't be as helpful as in the past. Besides the plug in feature, there doesn't appear to be any other reason to get the new Prime over the Prius. Why pay a lot more for a feature rarely used at best.

 

I don’t think you’re correct on that.

I wouldn’t trust generic lion recommendations for Toyotas chemistry

 

I could be wrong. I wouldn't recommend anybody buy a Prime, and not charge it for years, to just prove it though. There are more reasons to not buy a Prius Prime over a Prius for those with no intention to charge it. This is just one more.

What's so special about the batteries Toyota gets than what the suppliers sell to others? I think they are more heat tolerant for use with air cooling, but that doesn't mean they need radically different treatment to ensure long life. The manual sections on operation in freezing temps are in line with generic Li-ion. The section on storage deviates, but then Toyota doesn't supply a way to precisely and accurately charge the car to any level below full. They couldn't tell people to pull the plug when the dash display is at X point for storage.