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Inverter + Bluetti ac200max, how to connect?

Discussion in 'Prius v Accessories and Modifications' started by SparkyExtrovert, Nov 27, 2022.

  1. SparkyExtrovert

    SparkyExtrovert New Member

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    I want to add an inverter and a Bluetti solar generator to my Prius. What would be the most efficient way to connect these so that the Bluetti generator is charged by the Prius system in the best way possible? (I plan on having all electronics plugged into the Bluetti, not the inverter.) Would it be to connect the Bluetti to the inverter? So in that way, the Bluetti battery is used first, then the Prius battery system, then the engine kicking on to recharge in the opposite order?
    Or, no inverter at all and just plug the car charger from the Bluetti to the 12v plug of the Prius? Would that be a much less efficient/slower way of recharging the Bluetti?
    I’m thinking the inverter route is the better option as it also gives a backup plan if the Bluetti ever fails.
    I want to utilize the Bluetti in my Prius camping set up (long term car living actually) so that I have even more capacity and the ability to take the Bluetti anywhere I please away from the car itself.
    As for solar panels, my idea is using those only as a supplement to the Prius hybrid system. Perhaps just one 100w on the roof and a 400w suitcase set eventually. But even with that, my desire is to utilize the hybrid Toyota system as foundational for charging and obtaining electricity.
    As for electronics I plan on using often: 12v fridge, kettle, induction stovetop, 250w heater, electric blanket, charging phone/power bank/laptop/headphones/etc.
    Thanks for any help, ideas, comments and suggestions
     
  2. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Sometimes a diagram helps to describe your suggested setup. The inverter you mention could mean the prius inverter or an aftermarket inverter of various input and output voltages.

    However the most straightforward and non-custom method would charge using the car's 12v system while in Ready.
     
    #2 rjparker, Nov 27, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2022
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  3. SparkyExtrovert

    SparkyExtrovert New Member

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    I would be connecting a 1500w pure sine wave inverter to the 12v battery of the Prius. Then connecting the Bluetti to the inverter. Is this the most efficient set up to charge the Bluetti. Has anyone done this kind of thing before? The main reason I want to do this is to add capacity to the system. So that the engine has to turn on less when the car is stationary or off completely to run the fridge while I’m away from the car for 12-24 hours. I drive a lot so hopefully that will charge the Bluetti a good deal. And also, to have the portability of the Bluetti.
     
  4. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    No not the most efficient since your 1500 watt inverter will waste 10-20% of the 12v source power as heat.
     
  5. SparkyExtrovert

    SparkyExtrovert New Member

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    I see what you mean. In your opinion, would it be more efficient to just plug the Bluetti into the 12v factory outlet and that’s it? What would you do yourself for this situation? My mind still wonders, however, isn’t the factory 12v outlet a much slower charge for the Bluetti than an inverter set up? Thanks for your help
     
  6. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    There is only so much power allowed by the 12v outlet. Lets say its 120 watts. Thats all the inverter or any direct 12v load can get. So most people install an inverter directly to the 12v battery. If 1500 watts is your goal, you need to draw at least 110 amps. A huge draw. 1000 watts is about 75 amps at a nominal 13.5 vdc. A direct 12v connection to the battery avoids the extra inverter loss. Obviously you can't run these kinds of loads without the car in Ready.

    A better setup mimics RV battery systems, eg two 12v batteries with an isolator.

    For the truly obsessed, there is a system that wires directly to the high voltage battery. You get plenty of output power at a high price.

    06FD4816-6EDD-4014-95F9-959A72764BBD.png
     
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  7. SparkyExtrovert

    SparkyExtrovert New Member

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    Really, my only goal is to charge the Bluetti AC200MAX generator. The Bluetti can be charged through the Prius factory 12v outlet. The Bluetti is designed to and comes with a cable to do so. So no worries about that. It’s possible and safe and so on. My question is, would it not be a much faster charge of the Bluetti to plug it into an inverter that is connected to the Prius 12v battery? I’m not an expert on this and have no experience with such a set up. So, factory Prius 12v outlet vs. inverter set up to charge Bluetti generator, which is better?
     
  8. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Direct 12v without your inverter in the middle
     
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  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Could you look up and provide some specs for this Bluetti product you're talking about, so we all don't have to duplicate that effort?

    Some key specs with regard to your questions here: apparently the Bluetti comes with a plug that can charge it from a 120 volt AC source, and also with a plug that can charge it from a 12 volt DC source.

    If you look in the specs, you should be able to find the charging rate or power it is able to draw through the 120 VAC connection, and similarly the charging rate or power it is able to draw through the 12 VDC connection.

    Without those specs, we're all kind of shooting in the dark trying to answer your questions. Conversely, once you've looked those specs up, you'll be this close to having answered your own questions.
     
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  10. SparkyExtrovert

    SparkyExtrovert New Member

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    Thank you for your insight. It seems so obvious now. I looked up the specs on the Bluetti site. Charging through the 12v would be 100w and 10-20 of charging for a full charge. With the inverter it would be 500w and 5.5-6 hours of charging for a full charge. There’s even an option of dual ac charging at 800w and 3-3.5 hours for a full charge. This is the route I’m going to do for sure. As it also is a back up plan if the Bluetti ever fails.
    I mean, I already knew that the inverter would be a way faster method of charging. I just wanted to hear if anyone has ever done this kind of thing before. Many have gone the inverter route and even a second 12v battery. But I’m yet to find a thread where a large capacity generator like the Bluetti has been added. The Bluetti ac200max has a little over 2000Wh of capacity and can be expanded further. With a 2200w inverter built in. Plus I will add some solar panels to add to the charging. All that must make it far superior than a second 12v battery, right?
    Also, a big question I have is:
    While remaining in ready mode. If I have the Bluetti connected to an inverter that is connected to the 12v factory Prius battery; will the Bluetti discharge first, then the 12v Prius battery, then the hybrid battery pack and then the engine would kick on? You see, I am trying to expand the capacity of using the factory Prius batteries so that the engine turns on less often. Am I on the right track of thinking here with this idea? I’m new to this form of electronics and need some advice from those with more experience. Thanks again
     
  11. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    With respect, is the idea here to throw money at a perceived problem/opportunity?
     
  12. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    For the first part of that question, you'd have to ask Bluetti (or 'ask' its manuals). The 12 V Prius battery will not discharge very much, because it will be kept at a steady voltage by the car's DC/DC converter, using energy from the traction battery. The traction battery will not go anywhere near full discharge (or full charge, either); the engine will be cycled to keep it within a range ten or twenty percent wide around middling charge. You can see more details about that in the hunkering thread (especially in the post about extra-extended hunkering):

    on hunkering, Gen 3 style | PriusChat

    Keep in mind that the car's DC/DC converter has a maximum output around 1700 watts, and the car itself uses at least 400 of those, more depending on what loads (lights, defoggers, seat heaters, etc.) are turned on. So around 1300 watts will be the very most you can ever sustainably draw. If you are drawing more than that through the Bluetti, then the car's 12 V battery will be on a fast or slow trend to full discharge, as the car's electronics will lack the capacity to keep up with the demand.
     
    #12 ChapmanF, Dec 1, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2022
  13. SparkyExtrovert

    SparkyExtrovert New Member

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    Thank you all for your insight. Very helpful. If anyone has any other tips or ideas it would be much appreciated.

    I would never draw more than 800w through the inverter connected to the 12v factory Prius battery. The only thing I ever plan on using it for is 2 ac connections to the Bluetti generator for charging it. That is the only thing I would be using the inverter for.
    Otherwise, all my electronics and electricity needs will be utilized from the Bluetti itself with its own 2000Wh capacity and 2200w inverter. The other stand alone inverter connected to the Prius 12v battery will only be used for charging the Bluetti generator. I just want to be clear on that. That is the heart of my design and I would like the opinions of those more experienced than me on it.
     
  14. PriusV17

    PriusV17 Active Member

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    The Toyota 12v is very delicate. Too much draw and the lead acid battery can get permanently damaged and decrease the lifespan rapidly. You may want to research LTO 12v batteries that can fit directly into the 12v compartment. They can be discharged to 0v over 10,000 cycles even at -40C/-40F. They are the ultimate and true all weather batteries. They are pricey but if built right can last a lifetime.

    This is just for reference.

    https://lithium-titanatebattery.com/product/12v-lto-battery-pack/

    So far only Japan and China makes LTO batteries that I know of. But only the Chinese version are available for the public to buy. Japan's version are mainly for commercial and industrial use.
     
  15. PriusV17

    PriusV17 Active Member

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    12v LiFePO4 batteries are also good and more affordable. Some users here have already switched. They can be drawn to 0v and still have long cycle life. But if you think you will be at sub zero temps LTO can handle that. Normal temps LiFePO4 works good. IMO I don't think enough research has been done on LiFePO4 cells at sub zero temps. Maybe they will do fine? Since LTO is also lithium based.
     
  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I have not found the Toyota 12 V battery to be very delicate.

    In general, lead-acid battery design involves a trade-off between high starting currents (needing to maximize the reacting surface area with many thin, delicate plates), or deep cycling (lower surface area, fewer, thicker, sturdier plates). Because the Prius has no need for high starting currents, Toyota was able to spec a battery on the more durable side of that spectrum. I've certainly never treated mine with kid gloves, and the two I've had to replace were both around ten years old.