Unanswered questions about new Prius

The air density here is *never* sea-level density. At work, it varies between 0.95 and 1.05 (1.05 when it's really, really cold and we're in a high-pressure atmospheric condition), while sea-level is 1.225kg/m^3.

Cold temperatures hurt efficiency other ways, most notably rolling friction is far higher on cold tires.

 

Except on road-trips (two this year). Most all of it on I-70 and I-15.

I've used 37 gallons to go 2,700 miles, all interstate, on those two road trips. Charging here and there helps, controlled speed helps.

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/electric-cars-are-not-necessarily-clean/?utm_source=google_pmax&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=blackfriday22&utm_content=text&utm_term=LP_40poff_v1_s1&gclid=CjwKCAiAyfybBhBKEiwAgtB7fi7c7x00sX3Cl21gVcDK1QsjPh-uTJOgTgL5X8lQc6O88L42obbY5hoClIcQAvD_BwE

"In the absence of clean electricity, hybrid cars that can travel 50 or more miles on a gallon of gasoline produce the least emissions."

 

My lifetime on my 2018 Model 3 is about 208 wh/mile (or 4.8 miles/kwh)
About 50% on 25/35-50 mph and 50% at 55-65 mph freeways. I did do about 2500 miles this year on Interstates, mostly 70 mph. I can easily get small trips down to 160 or 180 wh/m by driving 25-40 mph

Mike

 

Electricity is getting cleaner and I installed solar on my house specifically to run my house, my heat pump, my car and my bikes.

If I just want a hybrid, I already have a Prius Prime.

 

I don't like the model 3, for numerous reasons.

 

That doesn't sound as efficient as the Tesla fanboys on this site claim.

I get about 4.8 mi/kWh with Prius Prime on mostly freeway driving. It would be about 5.3 mi/kWh in 50/50 mixed driving and 6.0 mi/kWh in city driving.

Gen 5 Prius Prime should increase the EV efficiency by about 10% with its substantially reduced drag coefficient and improved powertrain. If you get the solar glass roof, that would add another 5%.

 

I have solar too but I charge at night because the rate plan makes it cheaper to do so. I'd say most people do the same. Guess where the power comes from? This is leaving out the negative environmental effects of mining and processing lithium and other minerals to make batteries and disposal/recycle of said batteries too. Most people don't live where they can charge an EV either. The whole EV thing being the answer to global warming is pure BS.


iPhone ? Pro

 

You can reduce your gasoline consumption by upwards of 90% with the Prius Prime and it will cost you thousands less than a long-range ev. Maybe that's good enough?

 

I've already done that (I'm at 80% EV lifetime), and for complex reasons, I'm looking for an EV to replace it.

 

I did a simulated calculation for replacing my current PP with a BEV. Even though the BEV will be 100% electric, if I replace the PP with a BEV, then our total household gasoline consumption would increase. This is because no BEV currently available on market has a long enough range, such that for our long out-of-state trips a few times a year, we have to use our Pathfinder Hyrbid which gets a meager 30mpg on the highway.

 

Do you experience real winter temperatures (0F or lower) when you drive your car? I wonder what the stats are on the efficiency of BEVs driven in Canada vs the US (specifically in areas with no snow).

 

The only 5th gen prius worth buying is going to be the cheapest Prime variant. I think it'll take 2-5 years before supply and car inventory returns to "normal". Toyota is working behind the scenes on battery tech and production and with how in demand the 5th gen is...I think they will make as many as they can (every single one will be sold out....and some will pay over MSRP).

But normality won't return until 2025 at the EARLIEST.

 

2016 is a bit out of date. A 50mpg ICE car will only best the average EV in a small part of the US today.
Driving Cleaner | Union of Concerned Scientists

The impacts of mining of battery minerals also apply to hybrids. It's less per car compared to an EV, but more than a straight ICE car. If manufacturing costs are an important consideration, we shouldn't be putting batteries into any cars. But that isn't the case, a car's impact is far more than its manufacturing. Unlike the extra fossil fuels used by the straight ICE, the minerals used in batteries will be recycled and repurposed.

Who is claiming EVs are the only answer? The ICE 'bans' are on personal cars only. Hydrogen and other renewable fuels haven't been abandoned. Seems more options are being explored.

 

They haven't been repurposed yet. What's the process? Diesel trucks are also being considered being banned. As discussed here, hydrogen as a fuel has been a big fail.


iPhone ? Pro

 

A Prius EV should not weigh that much.

The Ioniq6 isn't a lift back.

Which is why I have one.

 

Maybe you have noticed my location?

Mike

 

How many liftback cars are available?

 

Toyota has been right about EVs and the general public is simply not getting it.

1. Tesla/Elon Musk grew Tesla when investor money was cheap, available, interest rates were artificially low, and Tesla was a 1st mover in volume BEVs.

Elon Musk sold a great story about BEVs (saving the planet) and initially promoted a price hard to believe. He initially lost money on BEVs by selling them for a price lower than his production costs. Musk borrowed heavily to build out a global charging network (10 year life-span before upgrades are needed) to support new vehicle sales however, he quickly dropped entry level trims and increased prices to bring the prices sold above the cost to manufacture. His profit comes at the expense of service, reliability and quality control. Musk sold the dream of autonomous driving with his vehicles and people embraced the notion of autonomous driving. Musk is a great sales person however he can be accused of overselling and under-delivering. Autonomous driving (no one at the wheel) is decades away - if ever.

2. Toyota's Efficiency Strategy

Toyota has repeatedly explained they believe they can improved cradle to grave vehicle efficiency and reduced emissions using hybrid technology and make products available for the mass market globally. Toyota is 100% accurate. Battery production has and will continue to be the limiter on BEV availability and production.

The global annual vehicle sales for 2021 was 85 million vehicles and very few ask 'What will be the environmental impact of producing lithium batteries for that many BEVs each year? How much electric power generation is necessary to support an 85 million / year vehicle market in the short or long term?

A choice has to be made: Is it better for the environment to produce more hybrids or more BEVs? I would suggest building more 300 AER BEVs for the few times you go on a road trip per year is not the best use of a finite resource compared to making many more affordable hybrids designed to efficiently meet your day-to-day needs.


3) The Affordable BEV Myth

It appears a profit-making BEV is around $50K - $60K USD. The Chevy Bolt BEVs are being subsidized by GM to offset the low mileage SUVs and Trucks they build and comply with CAFE. Government incentives disguise how unaffordable BEVs are for the average consumer. Also, does anyone notice no non-Chinese company is producing a volume BEV trim under $50K USD in sufficient volumes? The affordable under $50K USD BEV trims are produced in small volumes with greater volumes allocated to higher specification trims.

4) Volume Will Make BEVs Affordable

Elon Musk mentioned early-on the volume Tesla BEVs (Model 3/Y) when produced in sufficient volumes would result in greater affordability. In 2022, Tesla will come close to producing a million BEVs globally but that has not translated to Tesla building more affordable trims of the Model 3/Y. Musk could but refuses to do so.

Base Model 3 - $48K. Base Model Y - $67K

A 57 MPG Prius 5-door is the best balanced automotive solution that is extremely reliable. BEVs at some point may make sense but in a slowing economy you will soon see that they don't - unless you are affluent.