Is 50/50 a possibility?

If Toyota does one thing, it is they reuse the same battery pack over and over. For the Prius PHEV models they've doubled their packs from 4.4 kWh for the Prius Plug-in to 8.8 kWh in the Prius Prime. If they double it again for the next generation you'll get 17.6 kWh which is very close to the 18.1 kWh battery packs they use today in the rest of their PHEVs. It might be possible to see the same 18.1kWh pack we see in all Plug-ins. That battery appears in the RAV4 Prime, NX 450h+ and the new RX 450h+. If they do that, it might be possible we'll see the same newly developed 1.5L 3-cylinder engine as seen in the Yaris Cross GR Sport (which is a hybrid BTW) as a base engine. But a lot of the chatter says it'll go to the 2.0L because it's Toyota's most efficient. We'll find out more as we get to next spring.

 

I've gotten close to 40 miles but 50 would be a stretch without redesigned battery pack. If they build it from the ground up they could definitely fit more battery below the rear hatch. It's s few inches taller than a regular Prius because they left the floor with the spare tire area the same but didn't fill the void with the battery pack. Some more kwh's it'd definitely make it 50 miles.

The Prime already gets better than 50mpg after the EV range is depleted. In fact I find it gets better mileage on hybrid mode than the 2016 Prius it replaced. Low to mid 60s according to the meters so definitely upper 50s real world.

 

dont know the amswer for the increasing in EV range, but in hybrid you easilly get 60mpg

 

We have a 2017 Prime for our winter residence in West Valley of Phoenix. For our type of driving there it has been perfect. Runs on the traction battery for up to 35-40 miles, maybe more if under 35 mph, just under if freeway speeds. Had 1200 miles on trip odometer, filled up with 5 gallons of gas!! Not complaining a bit!!

 

For low to mid-speed (35-50mph) short trips, I regularly get 35 miles of EV range from a full charge during warmer seasons. This is 10 miles more than the EPA-rated 25 miles range. The range suffers a lot in the winter months down to 18 miles on some very cold days such that my yearly average EV range is around 30 miles or 5 miles/kWh of efficiency for 6kWh of the usable traction battery (8.8kWh). On the other hand, as others have already pointed out, the HV efficiency of PP is already superb. In most driving conditions, I can easily beat the EPA-rated 54mpg. My overall average HV-only portion of efficiency is ~60mpg calculated.

Based on the 30 miles average EV range I am getting now, in order to achieve 50 miles average EV range out of a PP, one would need to increase the size of the battery by about 45% to 12.8kWh. The Rav4Prime already has an 18.1 kWh battery on it. I am sure if Toyota redesigns the PP specific to PHEV, they can come up with a space to put additional battery packs.

The question is for what cost? Are there any potential buyers willing to pay the increased cost on a PHEV, especially if no tax credit can be applied? Hard to say in this crazy market. But for me, even if the All-New PP has increased EV range above 50miles, I would not be interested without incentives. After all, I got my 2021 PP Limited with a $35K MSRP for ~$23K after rebates and incentives. So, for an All-New PP with an increased EV range, the price tag of $25K or better must be met. Otherwise, I will just stick with the current PP and wait for a BEV price to come down.

 

With this battery technology it would take a larger, heavier, more expensive battery to get to 50 miles of EV operation. Of course, the added battery weight is somewhat self defeating. I already get about 60 mpg on the highway with my Prime; a heavier battery would hurt that, also. With new battery technology...wait and see.

 

unlikely. they couldn't even figure out how to stuff the current battery in there.

rav4 prime is a whole different enchilada.

unless a miracle happens in battery energy density at some point, i don't see it. and if it does, we'll probably be on to bevs by then.

 

50 miles on a charge? Sure, you could get over 500 miles on a charge if you make a path spiraling down on a mountain, but for round-trip driving, don't expect over 35 miles in city and 30 miles on highway. The slower you drive, the higher the mileage will be, my record being 43 miles round-trip going about 25 mph. In more common driving speeds, you will get around 27–35 miles depending on your speed. Yes, the EPA range does underestimate the actual range of the Prius Prime.

 

The Prius Prime very likely was designed for a battery the size of the one in the PiP. The designers had to scramble when the decision was made to fix that. The current battery, and it's packaging ended up being a rush job. Which is why it was done poorly.

The use of air cooling increases the overall size of the pack in order to not have restrictions to the air flow inside. Go with liquid or refrigerant cooling, and the bulk can be cut from the pack. Don't make last minute changes, and the engineers can better pack the battery into the car. This is why the Rav4 Prime has a battery over twice the capacity of the PP's with little loss of space to it.

The Rav4P has over 40 miles of range. PP with 50 should be doable with technology now.

 

Volt battery life can't be assimilated to Prime

 

you can't sell that system in a prime, it's designed for carb credits

 

I'm saying a 50EV mile PP can be made without a major battery advancement. Not whether Toyota will make one.

If they did, it should only add $2000 to $3000 to the price.

 

maybe, and i'm not conceding the point. idk if it can be done that cheaply. rav4prime is expensive.

either way, the o/p wants to know if it is possible that toyota will do it, not that it can be done.

 

Yes, 2035 rules for california cars require that PHEV vehicles must go 50 miles on the charge before switching to gas. Also the rav4 prime already does about 50 miles on the charge.

 

i would hope we're way beyond prius primes by 2035

 

I would expect that Toyota in order to get ahead of the game would likely bump up the existing prime to 50 miles by 2025.

 

i don't think they can, at the right price point

 

I think it will be more a question of their battery supply.