Featured Tesla loses the race for mainstream EVs to GM

We're lucky we're near Longo, which promises nothing more than MSRP.

Waiting for VinFast now. Gonna pick one model or the other and cancel the reservation for the non-chosen...

Pretty much thrown to the curb on our Y reservation.....

REVVL V+ 5G ?

 

Read the reviews carefully. Only one I've seen I wouldn't be interested even though it will be built just up the road from me. Prototype. Wait for rev 3.

2023 VinFast VF 8 Prototype Drive Review: Early Days, But Promising

 

vinfast will also not be winning the cheap ev race

 

I almost think the way this is defined is a race to the bottom. Why is price not unit sales or dollar sales or profit part of the race?

It is not that the bolt/bolt euv are bad vehicles but they hold a much smaller niche than the tesla model 3/Y. The model 3/Y is definitely a mass market vehicle defined by high vehicle sales in terms of dollar volume of world wide sales. If the model Y is not mass market, then the prius never was, but I consider both mass market vehicles.

Perhaps in terms of crossing the chasm EVs are in the early majority part of a technological change. People are buying these vehicles for how well they drive not just the technology. In terms of unit not dollar volume an inexpensive chinese ev leads the way, but it couldn't pass us safety. Did it win the race?

 

Is a Corolla or Accord which who sell 25k each in a good month a mass market car? It isn't like the 50s when Fairlane and Impala had a large % of the US market. Many many more brands and market niches now.

Just reading a review of the VW competitor and it was saying the ID4 doesn't give you that EV punch which supports your notion that "how well they drive" is a factor.

Nice to have choices.

 

The Camry is an interesting car when one talks automotive business and winning and losing.

Best-selling car each for the last two decades = Toyota Camry made right here in the US

Once Again Toyota Camry Was Best-Selling Sedan In 2021 In America (hotcars.com)

Wonder if any vehicle will ever match the Camry for bets selling vehicle for each year for that long.

Can you guess what the best-selling car model in the world is over time = Toyota Corolla

Toyota Corolla is the world's best selling car after 50 years (motor1.com)

Modern car models will have a tough road to follow if they think they can approach either of these milestones.

 

I think more than 2% of people live in rural areas or regularly have 150-200+ highway drive days beyond an annual road trip. And on those days you need to make peace with how much time charging is going to add, as it could very nearly double some of the longer commutes. I like the Bolt sans the reliability issues it’s had, and I think it’s a good decently affordable option for many, but yes, the charging speed is a definite drawback.

I don’t think I’d save much money switching to a Bolt EV from the Prius C I drive right now, which regularly gives me 50+ mpg, 40-50% more range, and no charging anxiety since it all happens in the vehicle. Even with these high gas prices, I don’t think I’ve spent more than $35 to fill the tank.

I quite like the look and design of the Bolt though.. which kind of reminds me of the Prius C.

 

Corola is the best selling vehicle in the world, but in q2 in the US the model Y only sold slightly less than it. If the Texas factory was moving at full speed they would have outsold it. The model 3/Y should sell over 1 million this year world wide averaging over 80K/month. The model Y should exceed 40K/month.

+1

 

when i think mainstream, i don't think of brand or model, i think of type. so it's a sedan or coupe, wagon, suv, pick, etc.
i classify bev's as a type, even though they come in many of those configurations. for now, they are a type to me, and certainly going mainstream, if not there already.
the title should be 'cheap ev's' or some such. but even then, the race hasn't been won, so tesla cannot have lost yet.

 

Don't forget that every excuse that you make for low Tesla sales also applies to their competitors. It's not just batteries that slow the sales. Computer chips in general have been difficult to procure in volume.

Tesla does have one advantage in that arena. When radar and CPU chips became difficult to acquire, Musk declared radar as a scourge that just makes it harder to process the visual data. In an instant, all further cars were shipped without radar and the processor that was handling that duty was phased out or re tasked process video for the FSD mess.

Other companies have had cars backed up while waiting for chips to complete their cars.

 

I don't know how the OP article defined "mainstream", but my own definition is car maker is mainstream when an average person can afford to buy them. The average US household income is currently $67,521 according to the 2020 US census.

I have seen a few rules on how much money one can afford on a car. One rule is ~35% of annual income. If I use that figure, the car an average household in the US can afford has a price tag of $23,632. Well... if someone knows a used Tesla for sale at or below $23,632, please let me know. GM's Bolt is getting close to that number. Base Leaf with a full $7500 credit may get that level now. But with the new law, maybe Bolt will be the best buy if the $7500 tax credit applies again.

Yeah, even if Tesla outsells Corolla, IMOH it doesn't really matter if they are not affordable for an average household.

 

Just a point of order here. You are comparing a single model (corolla) to a company (Tesla). It's not valid unless we either pick a model from each company or compare all of Toyota's output to all of Tesla's.

And, of course, The recent sales figures really don't represent the public's desires. They represent what people were able to find for sale amidst the supply chain problems.

 

I see your point and agree with you. But, I am not trying to compare the two. My point is that Tesla has no car that can be considered to be in the "mainstream" car category. They are luxury car manufacturers. Model 3 attempted to break into the mainstream, but so far failed.

This again goes to what it means to be a "mainstream" EV. But for my own definition, it means it is truly an affordable EV for an average household. We haven't seen any from Tesla, but GM is getting closer.

 

In the spirit of the OP and thread title:
Tesla shuts down orders for the Model 3 Long Range in Canada and the US - Drive Tesla

Tesla stock collapsed to $900 on Friday.

Sack cloth and ashes for Tesla. Woe is Tesla.

Bob Wilson

 

Of course, which cars are considered mainstream greatly depends on your definition of the word “mainstream”. If the definition of mainstream is affordable for the average household, very few new cars can be considered mainstream. Most new Corollas sell for more than the figure you mentioned earlier, so the best selling car in the world is not or no longer mainstream by that logic. And yet affordable but unpopular cars would be considered mainstream because they cost less.

I think car sales give a better and more true representation of what is mainstream. Better selling models are mainstream, lesser selling models are not. This is the metric car companies use to determine their product lineups, and I think it makes the most sense to apply to defining the term “mainstream”. And if we use sales volume as the defining factor, then Tesla’s Model 3 and Model Y are the ONLY mainstream electric car models outside China. Everybody else is playing catch up.

For perspective, in the first 2 quarters of 2022 in the US, Toyota sold 34000 Prii, and Tesla sold 78000 Model 3s.

The best selling electric car on the list is the Tesla Model Y, which sold 95000 units, and the best non-Tesla electric car is a close showing between the Chevy Bolt and Ford Mustang Mach E, each of which sold 17000 units. There’s really no comparison.

*sale numbers rounded and taken from https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2022-us-vehicle-sales-figures-by-model/

 

You really can't just redefine a word to make it fit your argument. Mainstream has a definition in the English language, so please use it properly. Just as you should not reword the original post in order to make it fit.

Is the Tesla mainstream? Try asking yourself this question: How many of your neighbors have a Tesla? How many towns near you have a Tesla dealership? How many service centers are near enough that you can drop your car off on your lunch hour? How many of your friends really know how a Tesla is charged and what it costs to do so? How many know how it really works?

Chances are that, unless you are in California, you can't really claim that Tesla is mainstream. Even in California, it's sales are artificially boosted by incentives and the supply chain problems. Wait a year or two to see if Tesla is still near the top of the heap.

 

I agree. Until Tesla has a vehicle that can be considered 'affordable' by the average family, I'll continue to view Tesla as a luxury nameplate. And that means a comparison to Lexus and the other higher end brands. In that regard, Tesla is knocking it out of the park. They own the 'luxury' segment now.

However, even though we can 'afford' a Tesla, I won't even consider it until they have an affordable vehicle. Yes...I'm frugal that way ( wife says I'm cheap...haha ). On that note, I *really* like our Prius C for a daily driver, and the C is cheap to maintain. It was surprisingly great on a road trip as well ( I didn't expect that at all ). Unfortunately, our daughter has the Prius C now...so I'm keeping my eyes open for another one.

 

I think most household making average income in the US is buying used cars. And if they are buying a new car, then they are going beyond what they can afford.

BTW, I just checked it ... according to Google, the 2022 Toyota Corolla/MSRP From $20,425. I have no idea what trim level that is. But, the lowest MSRP on one of Corolla's models/trim is truly affordable looking at the number.

I purchased a new $34K Prius Prime, but I was able to afford it only because it was actually a $24K car after all the incentives are counted. Otherwise, yeah, I would have purchased either a used Accord or a maybe. brand new Sentra.

Again, if we are using a different definition for the term "mainstream", then the debate is totally meaningless.

 

Per Merriam-Webster’s English Dictionary: Mainstream (adjective): having, reflecting, or being compatible with the prevailing attitudes and values of a society or group

I am using the term properly, and I disagree with the implication in the original post that affordability is the most relevant metric to determine compatibility with prevailing attitudes and values of society.

To address your points, I live in Minnesota and see Teslas regularly, to the point that they are no longer a novelty. I see Teslas several times a week, and every other electric car model is considerably more rare, considering I have only seen a handful of non-Teslas. I don’t know where the nearest service center is, but there are a number of superchargers at a local store. I have no idea how many of my friends know how a Tesla is charged, what it costs, and how it really works; but that could also be said of most any other car those friends do not drive themselves. My friends are not auto technicians, and neither am I.

I will agree that Tesla does not have close to the same social penetration as Ford or Chevrolet as a company, and if you consider social penetration to be mainstream, I can understand and agree that Tesla is not yet mainstream. It really does depend on the factors each of us believes are most important to those societal prevailing attitudes.