Mileage Change

that seems like a decent price. is that after any rebates? mass save is offering something based on size.

350' is a pretty small area, but you still have to run the same power and install the units.

 

$5K after an $800 state rebate is applied. The total estimate is $5,881 but it includes $250 for a subpanel installation part and labor. If I had an empty slot on the main panel, it would have been a bit less. Our rebate is based on the efficiency of the unit installed. Any heat pump with better than 12.5 HSPF gets an $800 rebate for the first unit, then $400 off for the second unit. If the unit efficiency is less than 12.5 HSPF, then the rebate is $400 for any unit.

The thing is that price is not proportional to the size of the unit. Installation cost is about the same for a small unit as a larger one. Yes, multi-zone will get more expensive, but if comparing 16,000btu vs 9,000btu single-zone units, I have a feeling the total price difference is going to be very small.

 

You wouldn't last a week here. Lots of days in the summer never get below 80º. But with humidity at 94%, who can complain?

Man, did we hijack this thread or what!!!

 

It was 86f at midnight last night. Of course nothing manmade influenced this climate. However the climate influences mankind. Luckily the Prius v enhanced ac rocks. Full btus anytime. The house with encapsulated attic and exterior foam insulation takes the heat even better.

 

Our morning low today was 57F. I suspect some of you might be turning on the heat at this temperature if this happens in the south. We had all windows open all night long. Expecting a 79F high today. The room temperature is at a very comfortable 72F now, but turning all of the window fans now to cool down the house naturally before it heats up again.

 

it was a beautiful morning! 7am was 58, and i was on the patio in shorts and t-shirt having breakfast, watching the sun come up. looks like the heat wave finally broke, thankfully.

i wouldn't last in the south, i'd be like the wicked witch of the west

 

hmm, my panel and sub panel are pretty full, could be more expense, and an electrician won't even come to the house for $250.

 

Yeah, I was very surprised when the HVAC guy quoted only $250 for the sub-panel installation. But if he can do it at that price included in a heat pump installation, then that is another good reason to do this upgrade.

A few years ago, I had an electrician come and give me an estimate for installing a sub-panel and 220v outlet for the L2 charger. His quote was ~$2K IIRC for a sub-panel alone, but if I wanted a 220v in a garage, then the price jumped to ~$10K since he would have to dig under the blacktop driveway.

 

when we remodeled in 08, the electrician (who was subbed by the general contractor) said we needed a sub panel because the main was full. then he said the main was illegal because it was full of double breakers, and it wasn't rated for that. so we wound up replacing it with a larger panel (huge expense), and even that was full when they were done, including all the old double breakers.

when we had the generator installed, they put in a sub panel with all the circuits we wanted on back up. that electrician said the original panel was legal, and he didn't know why they changed it.
it's tough to be at the mercy of these guys.

 

Yeah, I really hate hiring a contractor. Unless he/she is a friend or family member, I can never trust them 100%. I have another HVAC contractor to give me an estimate for the same heat pump job. I would like to get at least three estimates for any jobs, but it is not always possible.

 

Yikes!! There's nothing wrong with tandem breakers. But not all panels are made for them. It's complicated, so I looked it up.

Pre 1965 panels didn't have Circuit Total Limits (CTL). From 1965 to 2008, it was a calculation where you multiplied the total amperage by 2 poles and then divided that by 10. So, a 100A panel would be allowed 20 circuits. (More 2-pole 240V circuits will free up more spots for tandem.) Beginning in 2008, the manufacturer provided a label saying how many tandem breakers are allowed and where they can be. And they are made to reject a tandem breaker where not permitted.

So, unless the second electrician saw your old panel, he wouldn't know if it was legal or not.

And on the weather front, it was only 75º when I started my walk this morning. It was 80º and I was soaked at the end. Now, it's time to mow the yard. Forecast it 91 today and 94 tomorrow.

 

94's our high today, and the next couple as well. Think our humidity's lower though. Reprieve Monday.

 

Almost all panels built in the last forty years can take tandem breakers. This is the quickest and best way to add space. But there are other solutions to add a double pole breaker or two in most situations. One is to take two low load circuits, wire nut or wago them together and pigtail them to one breaker. Do this twice and you have room for another double pole. Another way is to double wire breakers listed for it. Most are. Legal by the NEC; some local jurisdictions may object. Even a subpanel requires a double pole to feed it which requires making space.

 

Also, inspectors when you're selling a house. Ask me how I know that? They have no authority, but if you want to sell the house ...

Or repurpose an existing double pole slot to fee the sub and then refeed that load from the sub panel. I did that with mine.

 

Continuing to hijack the thread... LOL

Even with double poles and subpanels, there is a limit on the number of amps I can draw. If I convert our home heating and hot water to 100% electric heat pumps and also want to install a 50A 240v outlet for an L2 EVSE, I think I will have to upgrade and replace the 100 amp main panel. I have no idea what the cost would be for that upgrade.

 

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

 

In most areas, a homeowner can do his own electrical work. However it is likely subject to permits and inspections. This video from earlier this week describes the process. The guy is a licensed hvac contractor who is also doing an apprenticeship to get an electrical license.

 

I Googled it...
2022 Cost To Replace Electrical Panel | Upgrade Breaker Box Amps

Yep, a 400 amp panel is getting to be unaffordable territory for me, at least not with the costs of heat pump and EVSE installation added to it.