I want a minivan...

We have a 12 Mazda 5 Grand Touring as our "truck" and a 21 hybrid Sienna Limited (The One to Rule Them All) for everything else. We've had a Maverick hybrid on order for over year but gave up and are going with this combination that is serving us very well. Because of a horribly unreliable Pacifica hybrid (4 fails within first 6 months), we've road tripped across Texas in the Mazda with 5 adults and Christmas luggage with the aid of a cargo carrier. I truly wished Toyota would have made the V this way; such a versatile design.

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Road tripping in the miles eater (range>550 miles is awesome).

 

@Isaac Zachary It's too thirsty for current fuel prices, but I could see a late 2nd generation Subaru Tribeca (with 3rd row option) doing otherwise well on your list. That car had the lovely JATCO-derived 5EAT. Same gearbox in the Infiniti G35, Nissan Titan truck and some up-trim Outbacks, among others. It's auto, but it's a great auto for drivers who like control in hilly driving.

It was eventually replaced by the Ascent which has considerably better mpg, but none of those are old enough to drop into your price bracket yet.

 

I think that is mostly Nissan, and that could be because they embraced CVTs early on in the US when the technology wasn't as robust. CVTs are popular in other markets, and been used there for some time.

I recall Hyundai having issues with a CVT (Tucson?), but manufacturers can, and had, have issues with any transmission type. The manual of the Sonic generation I had was more prone to failure than the auto.

Friend has a 13 Outback he had since 2015 without any CVT issues. Subaru does call for fluid changes more often than the automatics I've had. They also have a 6000 mile oil change interval.

I scoffed at the idea of virtual gears for CVTs when they first came out. On the Outback, they do act just like down shifting the autos I've had when on hills.

Only seen gear hunting with the 6 speed Camry on the big hill of my commute, so would drop a gear there. The 6 speed Sonic was fine, but the little turbo was likely making more torque at lower rpms.

Got to read the owner's manual. Old, non-electronic step autos locked out the higher gears when lower gears are selected. A transmission now might do so, or it might do something else. Some examples.

• HHR - the M, I, L gears moved the shift points so it stayed in the lower gears longer. In theory, you could reach overdrive in L.
• Sonic - select a gear in manual mode, and it pretty much stayed in the gear. It would downshift on its own if engine speed got to low, but you saw the gear shift on the display.
• Camry - sequential mode looked like it was acting like the Sonic, but it worked like an old style auto. Selecting a gear had the system lock out the higher ones. The transmission could shift between the lower ones without giving the driver notice of what gear it was actually in.

 

I think Nissan CVT's have lousy reliability. But I think that's due to Nissan's CVT being bad and not CVT's in general. Similarly, Honda made a terrible ZF 9 speed Auto for the Honda Odyssey which resulted in lawsuits. I think Honda's 9 speed is bad, not all automatics.

The Outlander CVT has a Ds sport mode and an L mode. I rarely use the L mode as you describe as it slows down to 25 mph. I use the Ds sport mode for long hill declines which holds the engine at a higher rpm. Higher trim models may have selectable simulated gears but I don't use them even in automatics that have real gears. I do use the L on a particular steep mountain climb in NH when it snows heavily with traffic. So this is really a knock against both transmission types unless you have simulated or selectable gears which I never use on either transmission types. What gear would you choose in an automatic?

I've heard about the first gear thing where there is less torque on a CVT. I don't think I've experienced it. The CVT will apply the appropriate torque as the Prius eCVT. I have been stranded at the bottom of my driveway on icy days but that's due to traction and not torque. I heard the Corolla now pairs a first gear with a CVT transmission.

No doubt with more gears and power, automatics are much improved from the 5 speed Civic I last drove. Downshifting is the problem. When one downshifts for more power. 1. The engine screams. It's very jarring for the driver and passengers. On a CVT, the tone will be gradual and rarely reaches the same decibel level. 2. There is an abrupt change in power which makes the vehicle unwieldy. In a CVT, it's a linear and gradual change. 3. There is an rpm for every grade and to maintain that speed on that grade. In an automatic, one would need to shift up and down, sometimes too loud and powerful, sometimes too weak. CVT's are just smoother and more comfortable drive and ride. Maybe if I lived on flatland, it wouldn't matter but there are enough inclines and declines to make a big difference for me.

And then there is cost, those 9 speed transmissions are just as complicated and costly to repair and replace as CVT's. So I'm confused at the animosity for CVTs. The only thing I agree with is performance but then just get a manual.

 

I see what you mean by going downhill. I've never experienced a need for the engine braking you describe. L and sport mode have provided me enough finesse, although, infinitely controlled engine braking is nice. Many EV's have that control for regen braking.

On going uphill, that's the thing, I don't drive pedal to the metal but when there is insufficient power to maintain speed, one has to press down on the accelerator causing a downshift. Where the engine was calm at 2000 rpm is now north of 4000 rpm 1 or 2 gears up. More gears just means it downshifts in multiples. Helps, but doesn't solve the issue. On a manual, at least I can deal with the noise and leave in gear. In an automatic, it violently downshifts causing a surge of power like the car is trying to get away from me. The issue is magnified in small 4 cyl engines which is the norm when one wants to maximize fuel economy.

I dislike simulated gearing in CVT's as Nissan has done to appease people who don't like CVT. It seems people who don't like CVT have their reasons and putting in gears just annoys people who already made the switch like me. I've been very happy with my Outlander and looked forward to the next model but unfortunately, the new Outlander and Rogue are based on the same platform and share the same engine and simulated CVT gearing. It brings back the violent downshifts and defeats the purpose of a smooth power delivery.

Apparently, we're polar opposites in transmissions and mountain driving style. At least we both agree manuals are the best. Good luck on your search.

 

A CVT that has virtual gears for the sake of acting like an automatic is pointless.

The Outback CVT does have 'gears', but not for that reason; no simulated shift points. They appear to shift the rpm target the CVT aims for. Haven't the need to try them out while accelerating, but when going down hill, they allow control of engine braking.

 

I like the idea of CVTs, not yet thrilled with reliability.

I thought the fake gears in modern CVTs were a nice software fix to a perceived problem

...But for the love of all that is holy why isn't there a button to enable/disable the pseudo gears?

 

you'll get a pretty penny for the prius though

 

Yea - pretty sure 6'-11" is average size for mazda manufacturer employees.

Our 4yr old plug in Pacifica has under 21,000 miles on it. That doesn't mean it hasn't seen hard miles. It did 3 interstate trips - last one during winter. 1,250 miles over the contental divide ... parts over 80mph & parts below 0°f. Fully loaded plus trailer hitch luggage rack. Even so - when averaged with 80+% trips of no more than its 33 electric miles - the lifetime mpg is currently around 64.4mpg at last glance.
Yea it's pricy like most all plugins. But it'll hold 4X8 sheets of plywood or drywall etc when the back 2 seat rows are stowed - & with the outrageous gas prices? It working fine.

 

30+ year old vans are fun projects, great 3rd cars.
Lousy family transportation though.

 

Agree with @Leadfoot J. McCoalroller on this. I don't care what the seller says, there is no way I put my trust in the 30 years old car to haul my family across the state line. For hauling cargo in and around town only... then maybe.