Featured Designed For a Sustainable Future: The All-New 2023 Kia Niro Debuts

Any words on prices? I checked the Kia web site, but couldn't find it.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

I am thrilled to see it should be available in all 50 states

 

The KIA NIRO is considered one of KIA's brands lower priced models. Current 2022 brand new units start at less than $25,000.
The NIRO's are value packed vehicles and it would not be surprising to see the 2023 priced the same or lower than the 2022's.

In 2019 we purchased a NIRO PHEV EX for under $30,000 and received a $4,500 rebate on our tax filing.

2022 Kia Niro Hybrid | Crossover SUV - Pricing & Features | Kia

The all-new 2023 Kia Niro | EV, Hybrid & Plug-In Hybrid CUVs | Kia

For a 2023 KIA NIRO EV packed with the latest features I would expect it to cost less than $30,000 after figuring in the $7,500 tax incentive. An interesting fact with KIA financing is that if you lease the vehicle they monetize the rebate and take the $7,500 directly off the price of the vehicle.

They do not give them away as they are very popular but you probably aren't going to find a better value no matter how hard you look.

 

Looks like they ran out of paint for the rear quarter panels...

That problem aside, I'm picking Kia-Hyundai as one of the few automakers to survive the next economic crash... I'm seeing the new Kia logo on cars all around town already. People really like these cars!

 

Hmm...appears Kia is still using a DCT?

"Also as before, the two hybrids come with a six-speed dual-clutch automatic transmission, as opposed to the continuously variable transmission (CVT) that many hybrids are equipped with. "

If so, I'm not sure I want this...still not convinced DCTs will be good long term. Or am I being silly?

 

Dual clutch transmissions will likely have fewer losses in highway driving but higher losses in 0-5 mph than a cvt whether hsd or other type. YMMV. Many people prefer them because of the more traditional engine transmission feel, but some prefer the cvt. DCT's can feel bad at low speed, but the electric motor in a hybrid should smooth that out, the phev should give even a better feel with either transmission.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=HySbs&year1=2021&year2=2023&minmsrpsel=0&maxmsrpsel=0&city=0&highway=0&combined=0&YearSel=2021+-+2023&MakeSel=&model=&MarClassSel=&FuelTypeSel=&VehTypeSel=Hybrid&TranySel=&DriveTypeSel=&CylindersSel=&MpgSel=&SortBy=City&Units=&url=SearchServlet&opt=new&minmsrp=0&maxmsrp=0&rowLimit=50

Some DCTs had reliability problems and software problems. Fords early ones come to mind. I would expect a new hyundai dct hybrid or phev to be very reliable but probably not as reliable as a hsd.

 

short term gains for long term repairs.

 

Hopefully Toyota gives the Prius at least a 6" ground clearance. Otherwise, it might be the Niro PHEV for me. Or maybe a redesigned Crosstrek Hybrid.

 

If you are interested in someone's actually experience with the NIRO PHEV DCT I can give you mine.

We traded in a 2008 Prius we bought new on a 2019 KIA NIRO PHEV, We owned the 2008 Prius for 12 years and put over 150,000 miles on it. We have owned the NIRO PHEV for 3 years and have close to 40,000 miles on it. Other than the Prius ABS Actuator and 3 way valve neither vehicle really gave or has given us any issues. Both were/are economical and reliable to drive.

The Niro DCT is not noticeable to me at all, it behaves like an automatic transmission but has all the advantages of a manual transmission. I much prefer the feel of a DCT to the CVT. The KIA has three selectable drive modes - ECO- Comfort and Sport mode. In sport mode you are able to manually shift the transmission. Ours stays in ECO mode we never use the other two modes. Behavior in ice and snow has been excellent. The vehicle has traction control - ABS and vehicle stability control just like you would expect. I would not hesitate to buy another KIA vehicle with a DCT in it.

 

Good to hear! People give Hyundai/Kia a bad rap sometimes...but in our experience they have been extremely reliable ( we have a 2012 Sonata Limited and a 2013 Elantra GT ). However, they both do have fairly low miles for their age ( my daily driver lately has been the 2012 Prius V as listed in my signature ).

I dug up some notes I took a whine back while researching Kia's hybrid system. Looks like I ruled it out at that time because it appeared that more maintenance was required vs. Toyota's HSD. Things such as :

• Dual clutch transmission fluid changes ( every 64K miles ).
  
• HSG (Hybrid Starter & Generator) belt replacement ( every 32K miles ).

I was surprised it said that the HSG belt requires replacement every 32K miles....that seems really odd. And it kind of sucks that they have belts at all.

True? If so, I'll stick with Toyota's HSD. No belts...and transmission fluid changes only needed "if you want to" ( although all of us here probably do change it ).

 

The motor before the transmission likely means the system saves on cost by not needing as powerful of a traction motor.

I recall many people changing the transmission fluid in gen2 Prius that often. Toyota didn't put a transmission cooler in the car until gen4. Like the fluid in a step automatic and (non e)CVT, the fluid in a DCT is pulling double duty; it lubricates and works as an hydraulic fluid. For fluid longevity, the HSD should have used a manual transmission fluid, but would Toyota had on the shelf likely had an efficiency penalty.

The HSG replaces the alternator. I think those are mostly still belt driven. It also does the starter's job, but I think Hyundai still leaves that in place in case of issues with the HSG. Move to not making straight ICE cars, and the HSG can be integrated better into the engine. Right now, that is a higher cost for ICE models.

 

I agree because there are more moving parts and claims of two-sets of clutches. Fewer parts and avoiding friction transfers tends to be more reliable.

Bob Wilson

 

The hyundai uses a belt driven MG starter generator in its hybrid. This is a higher power component than the starter in their non hybrid vehicles. This is likely a cost saving measure compared to the geared mg1 in toyota's hsd. It is much lower powered than the toyota mg1 as it simply needs to start the engine not feed a lot of power to mg2 because of the dct transmission. Hyundai is now using a 12V lithium battery in their hybrids to save weight versus the lead acid battery and it should last much longer, and it sits with the high voltage battery pack.

 

Two questions answers:
1. Our Niro HSG schedule is to visually inspect each year or 7,500 miles and to replace after 7 years or 55,000 miles.
2. Dual clutch fluid replace every 24 months or 15,000 miles. (It is brake fluid). I do my own maintenance and have done this twice. It takes half a small container of brake fluid (about $2 at Walmart) and use my suction gun to suck the old fluid out. A 15 minute job.

 

But that didn't spare the Prius from software and inverter problems.

Manual transmissions were once more reliable than automatics. On paper, they still are, but the less reliable automatic now goes to 150k miles without issue now.

In essence, the HSG is a mild hybrid system akin to BAS and 48V ones. It just happens to be playing a supporting role to a full hybrid sized motor.

Belt driven is for cost savings. These hybrids are using engines designed for non-hybrids. The HSG can go where the starter or alternator is. While better in being gear driven, the starter stop was not designed for continuous connection of the motor, which the HSG needs to be inorder to supply power to the auxiliary system. Future engine designs could allow for a better integration of the HSG. Like future 48V mild hybrids will be closer to Honda's old mild hybrid than GM's.

Okay, so the DCT has separate fluids for hydraulics and lubrication. Sounds easier than replacing fluid in the brake system, and that should likely be changed more often than what most owner's manuals call for.

 

You can do that right now.
GC on my 2010 Prius is 140mm (5.51") and I put on 205/70/15 tires increasing it by 0.66" to 6.17 inches of ground clearance. And they make 1.5" lift kits but that was a no for me. lol