UKRAINE.....Stay or Leave?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by ETC(SS), Mar 15, 2022.

  1. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article259392144.html

    https://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/mitch-albom/2022/03/13/american-patriotism-ukraine-russia-war/7014778001/?gnt-cfr=1

    The US is VERY unlikely to be invaded for many reasons, not the least of which is the fact that we're 'in the club.'
    Meaning: Nuclear Armed.

    Ukraine famously barred males under 60 from leaving the country, begging the following question.....

    "Stay or leave?"

    OBVIOUSLY this is a question with no single correct answer because situations WILL vary.
    I can say that as a very nearly fully retired USN CPO (IYKYK) I'm pretty sure that I KNOW what I would do.

    HOWEVER (comma!) I can also SAY QUITE HONESTLY that as a proud/not proud REMF (ask a NAM vet) my answer might change when bombs, rockets, and mortars start dropping - FOR REAL.

    THIS IS WHY during our nations deadliest war ever, they often formed military units from the same geographical area, even in the 'regulars.'
    It was not for convenience or logistics, but rather it was for ACCOUNTABILITY.
    People are simply less likely to break and run when the grapes start flying if they are standing with friends, neighbors, and relatives.

    That is happening in Ukraine as well. ;)
    PLUS....they're fighting for home and hearth.


    So....
    Would you?
    I've fires many weapons from 5.56mm all the way up to 533mm, but I also understand it takes a big bulging bag of bright brass balls to take on a T-95 with a 40 pound rocket.... :unsure:


    We'll see how long this stays apolitical enough to remain in the adult section or if anybody cares....
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i honestly can't say, and where would i go?

    of course, i'm well beyond 60 :unsure:
     
  3. asjoseph

    asjoseph Samuel, '04 Ruthiemobile

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    ... Ukraine isn't defending itself, single-handedly. American boots are on the ground. We are taking casualties -
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Fascinating. Where?
     
  5. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i always find it amazing when people make undocumented claims :rolleyes:

    i could be wrong, but i haven't seen any reports of us troops. i have seen reports of us volunteers, and maybe some paid, i'm not sure.
     
    edthefox5 and Zythryn like this.
  7. Stevewoods

    Stevewoods Senior Member

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    Grew up with a Ukraine family down the block. They had a kid my age and we became best friends. The national pride in that country is terrific. And, I would not doubt that there have been more than a few U.S.-born "Uke's" who have headed for the battle.
     
  8. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    We may of may not have “people” on the ground in Ukraine, but we do not have “boots.”
    That’s a critical difference.

    The 3K figure for volunteers seems on the high side….
     
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The article linked in #5 says:

    So 3K may be the accurate number who have picked up the phone and inquired. The number leaving actual bootless sockprints across Ukraine may be smaller.
     
  10. asjoseph

    asjoseph Samuel, '04 Ruthiemobile

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    ... a month in, Russia's invasion of Ukraine looks to be no less a success, than Ike's Operation Overlord. The Russians won't have the supply line issues Allied forces did, nor will they have the problem our GI generation antecedents did -- long range fighter escort. The Russians ought to have the Ukrainians pretty much mopped up, all the bodies buried, by autumn's first snowfall - Samuel, '04 Ruthiemobile.
     
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    A month in, Operation Overlord was about 10 km 'in'. So one could talk about similarities. Two months in, Operation Overlord took Paris, about 100 km 'in'. Extrapolating from first month to second might not be justified in this case.
     
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  12. asjoseph

    asjoseph Samuel, '04 Ruthiemobile

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    ... signal mistake Russia can't afford to make, at this juncture: dithering; intellectualizing strategy; changing the objective; playing politics; going tit-for-tat on a propaganda war.

    They've got to focus, on tactics.

    They've got move now, take Kiev, assert control while refortifying, for a south-southeast offensive, two main columns working down each side of the Dnieper River, in a pinching movement, Russia's southern columns pushing northwest, to take Dnipro.

    Russia has until October. If they don't get it together, get with the program, it's going to be a long, cold winter for Putin's troops.

    Russia's biggest problem at this juncture, tactics. Putin's a spy, not a general.

    Were it an Erwin Rommel, a Chester Nimitz, or an Omar Bradley running the Ukrainian military, they'd initially retreat the entire Ukrainian army, let Putin overextend, then use standoff weaponry, cut the Russians limb from limb, switchblades and Javelins; knock out their brain cells with EMPs.

    Studying the maps, we're not getting the straight scoop what's really going on - Samuel, '04 Ruthiemobile.
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The best defense is a strong offense:
    Strike on Russian oil depot reported as Ukraine talks resume | AP News

    It was not immediately possible to verify the claim that Ukrainian helicopters targeted the oil depot or several nearby businesses in Belgorod also reported hit. Russia has reported shelling from Ukraine before, including an incident last week that killed a military chaplain, but not an incursion of its airspace.

    Do not hinder the enemy when he is doing something stupid:
    Russian Soldiers In Chernobyl Fall Sick With Radiation Poisoning, Reports Claim | IFLScience

    Russian soldiers who seized the site of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster have reportedly landed themselves with acute radiation sickness.

    Yaroslav Yemelianenko, CEO of tour operator Chernobyl Tour, has claimed that a group of Russian troops occupying the land of the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant near Pripyat was rushed across the border to a special medical facility in Belarus after exposing themselves to dangerous levels of radiation.

    Sounds about right!

    Bob Wilson
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    'putin conscripts 150,000 new troops' lucky them.
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: Former Russian Soldiers Join Ukraine Against Putin's Invasion, Kyiv Says

    Ukraine has said some former Russian soldiers have switched sides and have now joined Kyiv's forces fighting against Vladimir Putin's invasion.

    The Ukrainian defense ministry said on its Telegram channel on Wednesday that commanders of the "Freedom of Russia" legion were visiting detained former Russian military personnel "in order to select those who wish to serve."

    In a
    follow up post, it said that the "first volunteers," comprising ex-Russian troops, "have already begun individual additional training."​

    Ok, sounds good to me.

    Bob Wilson