Gen II Rims for Winter

Canvasback · Mar 11, 2022

Hi all,
Keeping my eye out for rims for winter tires for our new '22 prime. Any reason not to go for Gen II rims (not tires, obviously)? I know they will fit (same specs as Gen III, but a couple lbs lighter). Both Gen II and Gen III wheels are 1/2" narrower than Gen IV/Prime.
Is there anything to worry about with "older" alloy wheels vs ???
There are currently a plethora of Gen II rims at salvage yards near me, and I can get them for $50 or less, and from what I've read they are a couple lbs lighter than stock Gen III or IV (If this info is wrong please correct me).
Thanks!

WilDavis · Mar 11, 2022

Canvasback said: ↑

Hi all,
Keeping my eye out for rims for winter tires for our new '22 prime. Any reason not to go for Gen II rims (not tires, obviously)? I know they will fit (same specs as Gen III, but a couple lbs lighter). Both Gen II and Gen III wheels are 1/2" narrower than Gen IV/Prime.
Is there anything to worry about with "older" alloy wheels vs ???
There are currently a plethora of Gen II rims at salvage yards near me, and I can get them for $50 or less, and from what I've read they are a couple lbs lighter than stock Gen III or IV (If this info is wrong please correct me).
Thanks!
Click to expand...

Welcome to PriusChat, about the best place on t'InterNet to learn all you'll ever need to know about your amazing Prius:
As you might learn from previous posts, I have a 2009 Gen II (touring) which came with OEM 16" alloy rims. I fitted them out with some decent summer tyres (Sincera SN250 A/S), but for the winter months I've always used a set of steel rims I got from TireRack for about $40 ea. shod with a set of decent snow-tyres. Over the past 6 years I've used Blizzak WS80s (very, very good) and currently my car is wearing a set of Antares (studded snows). One disadvantage of using alloys in the winter is the salt and garbage with which they treat the roads here in the North East (New England) plays holy-hell with alloy rims. I hope this helps and I'm sure lots of other readers will chip in with their ideas! Good luck!

Salamander_King · Mar 11, 2022

As we have discussed in your other "spare" thread, Gen2 OEM rims should work fine. If you can find decent shape ones for cheap to be used for winter tires, then yeah, go for it. I don't see a problem. I did not find any cheap OEM wheels for my PP, so I ended up buying aftermarket wheels with snow tires package from the Discount Tire. With all sales prices, rebates, price much, I ended up paying less than $50/rim or a total of less than $400 for 4 Michelin Xice3 tires and MB Icon (alloy but not forged) rims mounted and balanced and free shipping ~4 years ago for my 2017 PP. The crazy thing was that it cost less than buying a set of four aftermarket steel wheels from the same online store. Yeah, it's not the best-looking wheel in town, but it sure looks better than black steely. At the price I paid, I am not complaining. I am still using the same set-up for my 2021 PP now. So, it is holding well in NE heavily salted road for 4 winters. The key is to wash and clean the rims and tires very well before storing them in spring.

Canvasback · Mar 11, 2022

Thanks guys.
@WilDavis, thanks for the heads up on the salt corrosion factor. I have considered steelies as well. Kind of like the idea of a lighter wheel, but I know steel are not that much heavier.
@Salamander_King, the deal you got sounds like "the right price.". I'll keep that in mind. Did that deal pop up in the fall?
I was basically intrigued by the weight of the Gen II, but I know weight is not the end all.
I really was just wondering if anyone thought there may be drawbacks to the Gen II s, for whatever reason. I actually think the Gen II wheel are pretty "bleh" visually (and Gen III for that matter as well), but they are light, and I figured being OEM stock they'd be pretty durable, but thought I should ask.

Salamander_King · Mar 11, 2022

Canvasback said: ↑

I really was just wondering if anyone thought there may be drawbacks to the Gen II s, for whatever reason. I actually think the Gen II wheel are pretty "bleh" visually (and Gen III for that matter as well), but they are light, and I figured being OEM stock they'd be pretty durable, but thought I should ask.
Click to expand...

I really don't think Gen2 OEM wheels have a negative effect on the car at all. When I was looking for my winter set of wheels, the first place I looked was eBay trying to find used Gen3 or Gen4 wheels. I think I did see some Gen2 wheels as well and considered them, but none were within the price range I got from the Discount Tire deal. Especially after adding tires and installation costs. Even the new steel wheels were over $50 at that time.

I think I got mine in September but back then a deal like that can be had any time. Leftover winter tires were often sold at a bargain price in spring. I got a previous set of same size brand new Michellin Xice Xi3 tires from a local tire shop for ~$100 for a set of 4. The only thing is that it was before the pandemic and the war. There may never be a sale like that again.

As for the weight, just for a reference point, here are the weight of the wheel + tire.

PP Stock OEM wheel + OEM Dunlop Enasave 01A/S tire: 30.3lb (tire 16lb, wheel 14.3lb)

Aftermarket Steel wheel + Gen3 OEM Bridgestone EP20 tire (full-size spare): 38.3lb (tire 17.42lb, wheel 20.88lb)

MB ICON alloy wheel + Michelin Xice Xi3 tire: 33.9lb (tire 16lb, wheel 17.9lb) note: Discount Tire page I liked above for this wheel has a spec for this wheel and it says the weight of the wheel is 16lb. Don't know for sure what real weight is.

Tire sizes are all stock 195/65R15, the weight of mounted tire and rim was measured by the scale, but the tire weight was searched online from the spec on this model of tire and size, and wheel weight was calculated from those two numbers. In my experience, the MB ICON alloy wheel with 3.6lb more weight than OEM wheels equipped with Xi3 snow tires had no noticeable mpg or EV range reduction compared to OEM wheel and tire.

vvillovv · Mar 12, 2022

As long as the gen2 wheels offset and hub bore are the same or close enough to the Primes you should be good - should be! I'd get the specs or measure or get one to test on the prime first.
You can get the Prime specs in this thread along with enough info to know howto and what to measure on the gen 2 wheels you're looking at.
Aftermarket Wheel Fitment Guidelines | PriusChat

Rob43 said: ↑

Recently I've been reading about PRIUSchat forum members choosing different types of aftermarket wheels for their Prius Primes. There seems to be some "confusion" about how things work concerning fitment versus what doesn't work, so here's a basic fitment guideline to use when considering your new aftermarket wheels. Take the time & do your research before you buy into your new wheels; there's nothing worse than spending the big bucks to then realize you should've bought something else. As a reference, the Prius Prime has a stock OE wheel size of 15x6.5" ET40 & a tire size of 195/65-15; overall diameter (OD) is 25.0".

1) Wheel Diameter:
a) 15" (Prime OE)
b) 16" (Plus One)
c) 17" (Plus Two)
d) 18" (Plus Three)

Wheel Width:
a) 6.5" (Prime OE)
b) 7"
c) 7.5"
d) 8"
e) 8.5"

3) Wheel Weight:
Less is more, meaning try *not* to buy into heavy wheels if it can be avoided. IMO this would be any wheel above ~18.5 lbs in weight; 17 lbs or less would be great. One of the big problems with buying aftermarket wheels is much higher wheel weight: higher wheel weight (unsprung weight) *negatively* affects the chassis in many ways. Poor fuel economy would probably be first, other issues will be sluggish handling, slower acceleration & braking & increased strut/shock wear.

4) Bolt Pattern:
A Prius Prime has a bolt pattern of 5 X 100, this means there's 5 bolts/studs & it has a pitch circle diameter of 100mm's. Anything Less Or More Won't Work.

5) Wheel Offset (ET) / Backspacing:
Offset is the distance from the center of the wheel to its mounting surface. Offset / ET is measured in millimeters (mm) and a Prius Prime's stock ET is +40. Trying to stay close to this number would be a good starting point. I'd recommend staying within 5mm's of stock if possible, which means an ET of 35 to 45. Backspacing (a slightly older method of doing the same thing) is the distance from the inside edge (back side of wheel) of the wheel to the mounting surface. Also, wheel backspacing is measured in inches while offset is measured in millimeters.

6) Spacers:
Spacers can typically be used for two reasons. First, to help correct a wheel that doesn't already have the proper offset. An example of this would be if you bought an aftermarket wheel with a ET45 and needed or wanted to correct it back to the Prime's OE ET40. A 3mm spacer would get you close by making it a ET42 & a 5mm spacer would get you all the way back to ET40. The second reason is for aesthetics. Some people use spacers to push the wheel/tire farther out giving the appearance of a fuller wheel well. Thin 3mm (1/8") spacers can be used on any Prime without modification. If you need something bigger like a 10mm spacer, you'll need to buy & install longer wheel studs to accommodate the thicker spacer. When shopping for any Prime spacer, realize that you can buy them with the exact 5x100 bolt pattern & 54.1mm hub bore, which should be your first choice.

7) Hub Bore / Hubcentric Rings:
The stock Prius Prime hub bore is 54.1mm's in diameter. This is important because most aftermarket wheels will have a much larger internal hub bore of roughly 73mm's. For example, your stock Prime wheel has a hub bore that's also 54.1mm's. This means the stock wheel is being centered on the hub *before* you tighten down the wheel nuts. The combination of the same hub bore and wheel bolt/stud tightening gives you the best chance for a perfect rolling wheel/tire combo, as relying on *just* the 5x100 bolt pattern does not always equal a good rolling wheel/tire. Knowing all this means it's a very good idea to use a hubcentric ring to convert a generic aftermarket wheel's bigger hub bore to the smaller 54.1mm Prime hub bore. Hubcentric rings are a non-wear item,
so it really doesn't matter if you use metal or plastic.

8) Tuner Wheel Lug Nuts:
Many aftermarket wheels require *tuner* lug nuts for mounting, this is especially true if the wheels you bought are double cut for two different bolt patterns. An example of this would be if you bought a wheel with a 5x100 and 5x114 bolt pattern, it's a virtual guarantee that you'll need to buy tuner lug nuts. Tuner lug nuts are simply smaller diameter when compared to your OE Prime lug nuts, thus they fit inside the aftermarket wheels smaller cut bolt pattern hole. If you're not sure about what style lug nut to use & can't easily find this info, please contact the wheel manufacturer before you try to mount your new aftermarket wheels.

Here are my two favorite wheel/tire calculators. Play with them by entering in different combos.
a) Rim & Tire Size Calculator. Custom Offsets - Wheel-Size.com

b) Online Wheel and Tyre Fitment Calculator. Offset, Tyre Stretch and Speedo Error | Will They Fit

Let's sum things up from ALL 8 categories:

1) Pick a wheel diameter that suits you & your style, maybe a 16" or 17".
2) Pick your desired width, maybe a 7".
3) Try to choose a lighter weight wheel if possible; call the manufacturer if you can't find the weight.
4) Absolutely buy a 5x100 bolt pattern wheel.
5) Try to get your offset close to the Prime's OE ET40 if possible.
6) Add spacers if necessary, try to buy 54.1mm hubcentric & 5x100 bolt pattern if possible.
7) Give great consideration to installing hubcentric rings if your new wheels have a hub bore bigger than OE.
8) Buy tuner lug nuts when needed, stock Prime OE lug nuts won't work for all aftermarket wheels.[?QUOTE]
Click to expand...

Canvasback · Mar 12, 2022

@vvillovv, The Aftermarket Wheel Fitment thread is indeed a great resource.
@Salamander_King, The weight you calculated for he PP wheel is interesting. I thought I read it is was more like 16+lbs (And our '22 came with the Toyo Nanos, perhaps because LE?)? And point taken on the deal you got... I won't hold my breath for someone to practically pay me to put new wheels and tires on our Prime.

Salamander_King · Mar 12, 2022

Canvasback said: ↑

The weight you calculated for he PP wheel is interesting. I thought I read it is was more like 16+lbs (And our '22 came with the Toyo Nanos, perhaps because LE?)?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I did not have the wheel without tires, so my calculation is based on the published tire weight of the spec. The OEM Dunlop tire weight of 16lb is from the Tire Trak site. The calculated OEM wheel weight of 14.3lb is indeed less than 16lb. If you do buy Gen2 OEM wheel, weigh it before you install a tire. My 2017 PP Premium (the equivalent of XLE now) and current 2021 PP Ltd came with Dunlop OEM tires. But 2020 PP LE was equipped with Bridgestone Ecopia 422Plus (made in Japan). I think Toyota uses any of three OEM tires in any trim. I have not had Toyo tires on my three different trims.

Here is a list of lightweight 15" wheels I considered, but did not purchase...

Volk CE28 = 8 lbs (15x6.5) ~$450 very rare to find 5x100/ 9.1 lbs (15x7)

Volk TE37 = 8.8 lbs(15x6.5) ~$450/ 9.2 lbs (15x7)

SSR Competition = 8.8 lbs (15x6.5) ~$395 only in 4x100 / 9.2 lbs (15x7)

Enkei RPF1 = 9.8 lbs (15x7) ~$200 only in 4x100

Konig Heliums = 11.4 lbs (15x6.5) ~$85 only in 4x100

Rota Slipstreams = 12 lbs (15x6.5) ~$145 only in 4x100 / 12.9 (15x7)

Velox Apex Hyper = 13 lbs (15x6.5) ~$140

Canvasback · Mar 12, 2022

@Salamander_King, the wheels you list are far beyond what I am willing to pay (other than the Heliums and I don't want to fuss with adapters). Aesthetics really is 3rd for us behind durability and efficiency, but thanks for the info. We are probably gonna put 20k to 30k annually on the car (who knows what new normal for remote/in person work is really gonna be), but I suppose if someone could convince me we'd save $1k on gas over 100k mi I would consider the investment. Maybe.
If I do end up purchasing Gen II wheels, I will absolutely weigh them and share the info.

Salamander_King · Mar 12, 2022

Canvasback said: ↑

We are probably gonna put 20k to 30k annually on the car (who knows what new normal for remote/in person work is really gonna be), but I suppose if someone could convince me we'd save $1k on gas over 100k mi I would consider the investment. Maybe.
If I do end up purchasing Gen II wheels, I will absolutely weigh them and share the info.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's the thing about spending $$$ on lighter wheels, unless you are taking your car for racing. After seeing the price tag on those lightweight wheels, I figured there is no way to recoup the cost from the fuel saved. In fact, for many years, I never bought separate rims for winter tires for my daily driver. A local tire shop where I use to shop for tires had free winter change over service. I had tires dismounted and re-mounted twice a year for free. The MB ICON wheels are the very first wheels I purchased for my own car. But after having snows on wheels, I can now swap the tires DIY without making an appointment with the shop.

MTN · Mar 14, 2022

Canvasback said: ↑

There are currently a plethora of Gen II rims at salvage yards near me, and I can get them for $50 or less,
Click to expand...

each or total?
because you can find near new Prius OEMs on this site's classified, or Craigslist/etc for $250/set - sometimes less even!

Canvasback · Mar 15, 2022

@MTN --each. $250 for a like new set would be great, but their not as readily available as you suggest, at least not in my neck of the woods.

MTN · Mar 16, 2022

Go for Gen IIs for cheap!

Mendel Leisk · Mar 16, 2022

Canvasback said: ↑

oth Gen II and Gen III wheels are 1/2" narrower than Gen IV/Prime.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure the 3rd and 4th gen rims are dimensionally identical; the tire sizes are the same. And I'm thinking gen 2 rims are also the same?

What I'm currently using for snows on my 2010, fwiw:

Corolla steel rim, part no: 42611-02471 (2003-2008 corolla or matrix, CE, LS, S)
steel rim lug nuts, part no: 90942-01007 (plain, open-ended, galvanized)

ttou68 · Mar 16, 2022

Gen2 should fit the same as others

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

Salamander_King · Mar 16, 2022

Mendel Leisk said: ↑

I'm pretty sure the 3rd and 4th gen rims are dimensionally identical; the tire sizes are the same. And I'm thinking gen 2 rims are also the same?
Click to expand...

As turns out, when I checked the spec, Gen2 and Gen3 rims are the same spec and size, but they used different size OEM tires. Gen2 is narrower. And as you know Gen3 and Gen4/PP use the same OEM size tires but Gen 3 and Gen 4 rims are not the same spec/size. However, I believe all rims can be used interchangeably.

Gen2

Gen3

Gen4 and PP

Canvasback · Mar 16, 2022

Thanks Mendel for to the suggestion. I've seen your setup, abs caps and all! My understanding is that Gen II &Gen III have identical rim width @ 6" and ET45, while Gen IV is 6.5" ET40, but that Gen lll & lV have 195 tires, and Gen ll has 185. One thing they all have in common is good looks (ha!). Thankfully my main concerns are durability, weight, and cost. I've even pondered the feasibility of going smaller diameter on the wheels with taller sidewalls ( to presumably drop unsprung weight and maximize mpg?) Given how many miles were gonna put on this thing, if I came across a really light 14" rim and if there was a decent lightweight 195/80/14 or so, we could probably keep the Odo artificially low for extended warranty! Would probably look like cartoon tires! Not sure what that would do to rolling resistance, though...

Canvasback · Mar 16, 2022

Welp, that'll teach me to start a post, go off doing something, then finish it without seeing if someone else has responded.... I see @Salamander_King has already said what I just posted regarding wheel/tire similarities and differences...

Gen II Rims for Winter

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