BT tech plate review on my 07 touring

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BT Tech @ Nov 10 2006, 12:18 AM) [snapback]346728[/snapback]</div>

A couple of things, I have been a member of this Forum since Feb 2004 but have not posted much since the early days. I reside in the USA but visit Toyota City regularly about 6 times a year. The Prius is not one of my platforms, plus it is currently built in Japan only. However there is a strong rumour that the next generation may be built in CA as the Toyota Master Corporate plan is to build each vehicle at the location of of the strongest sales.
My comments about Frank not being qualified were meant to be tongue in cheek. It seemed he needed some validation as he had already been convicted by the judge and jury here. In the BT Stiffener case I think that anybody who has "feel" for his/her car can feel a difference it is so defined.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tammrich @ Nov 10 2006, 04:04 PM) [snapback]347168[/snapback]</div>

Well Tammerich, I hope you realize my hesitation with your credentials?

Your new info about toyota is not inside info, its all over the news and easily available on the web.
I knew you were not a newbie on PC by your comments and I was protective for Frank who was new as I too had been abused when I was new, also your present name does not reflect membership since Feb of 04. Why ws the need to start a new name?
Maybe thats none of my business, but your old name may have given you a bit of credibility "unless it has none?"

Surely your realize that most of the trouble makers are the ones that are forced to restart with a new name?

New people you have no repoire with, its hard to share tongue in cheek with because of no positive emotional stamps built so they don't know your heart.

Nevertheless if you mean't tongue in cheek, thats great and I hope you did.

As you know, I didn't interpret it that way at all...maybe everyone else out here did and we are just on different frequencies or maybe I'm paranoid.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tammrich @ Nov 9 2006, 09:50 PM) [snapback]346717[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tammrich @ Nov 9 2006, 09:50 PM) [snapback]346717[/snapback]</div>

Anyway, if you want to start fresh with your new name, I'm game also to not hassle you about it.....

Since Frank is the very one who started this thread in the first place, it would be nice if you at least said Hi and introduced yourself to him so he doesn't think your telling him to go away and that he's not worthy instead of telling it to someone else.

That assumption may seem silly, but it can be a real one very easily coming from someone you don't know.. and Frank doesn't know anybody is the impression I got.

Its always nice to have newcomers who care about the prius and those who drive them, rather than just troublemakers.

Franks whole intent was to just be helpful.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fboyle @ Nov 7 2006, 08:11 PM) [snapback]345218[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fboyle @ Nov 10 2006, 06:53 PM) [snapback]347244[/snapback]</div>

I'm envious of your position... but I'll keep my age! :lol:

It would be cool to just be able to cruise in my prius all the time.
Its truely a pleasure as I look for excuses to make long trips.

You didn't stir anything at all.. we do just fine on our own!....
You were very polite and gracious..... we appreciate your presence and your comments.

 

The way I see it, that little plate of aluminum is pretty expensive. The real problem is, it's money that would put me THAT MUCH CLOSER to a new set of Michelins... which would (based on three past decades of experience) lay the cure on the Prius's wandering. Bye-bye OEM tires.

Another thing to consider is front-end alignment. Based on having had access to a front-end machine in the past, toe-in can have a drastic effect on how self-minding the steering is. I've read that the Prius has (or should have) a certain amount of toe-in (pidgeon toed), which is normal. But I'd like to try the car with a few different toe adjustments.

Don't know if caster is adjustable on the Prius, but I'll keep reading and try to find out. A bit more caster might firm up the steering feel and and make it act like it wants to go straight. It currently appears to not care much one-way-or-the-other.

GeronimoPFudgemuffin

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GeronimoPFudgemuffin @ Nov 11 2006, 09:34 PM) [snapback]347672[/snapback]</div>

I see those as things that need to be in order on any car.. maybe with exception to the oem tire.. I can't see tossing them until they are at least 70% used, but to each his own.

The plate is a mod to the existing part that will never need readjusting or replaced again as tires and alignments are..
I am in no way saying the plate "replaces" the need for the other.. it does not.. maybe helps, but if the alignment is out, your tires will still get eat up prematurely, and your steering will fight with you,.. I don't care what kinda plate you have.

The plate is simply to make things even better, once everything else is perfect!

 

That's where we differ: I can't see tossing them 'til I SEE THE STEEL BELTS HANGIN' OUT!

My '06 wanders a bit, but it's no big deal. I'd like to try driving it with the toe set to ZERO (lower rolling resistance, asssuming it can be gotten to actually ROLL & DRIVE at zero toe), but I think I can wait for the tires to go belly up before fiddling with anything. But I must admit to having impure thoughts about a set of 16" wheels with SLIGHTLY lower-profile tires... not much lower, just a bit. I'd choose tire size based on maintaining rolling diameter. All else being equal (and it never is), low-pro tires could/should have lower rolling resistance. My LMPG is near the mid-60s, so I'm a sucker for anything that'll kick it up a bit.

Of course, a reasonable question might be, "Why not just go to 17s?"

My feeling is that (based simply on driving other cars with low-pro tires), by the time you go out to 17" (and attempt to match the stock tire's RPM diameter) the tire sidewalls will be low enough to make it ride like a 2-horse buckboard wagon. High performance has its place, but not in my Budget Limo.

But still, those 16s call me...

GeronimoPFudgemuffin (the cheapskate)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GeronimoPFudgemuffin @ Nov 12 2006, 05:55 AM) [snapback]347760[/snapback]</div>

I've always heard the life of a tire is completely gone far before steel belts are even visible?
Whats... so many 32nds of thread left?

Anyway, when the tire no longer has enough thread to cut water well and give adequate traction will be far before the steel shows.

If your really frugal, isn't it wiser to use a little bit of what you've already paid for?

I mean, when you buy new tires, its going to be a very neglible difference in ride to the stock "new tires" anyway?.... but if it makes you feel better, thats important too... just my opinion and how I handle my resources.

 

I should've inserted one of those infernal smiley-thingies. I use my tires up, but not with belts showing... although I have "seen the steel" a time or two in customer cars.

Shedding water is a big concern on older tires, but traction (in the dry) improves as the tread wears away.

Lower rolling resistance is what I'd be after, but I'd be amazed if there wasn't a BOATLOAD of difference between a new set of premium tires and the OEM Prius tires. Every car I've ever had was transformed with a set of premium (but not necessarily ultra-expensive) tires.

I'm not one to drop a grand on wheels, but the Prius has a much-used bolt pattern, so decent wheels could likely be found in the case of someone going from 16s to (even) bigger wheels. I haunt salvage yards with wreckless abandon (pun intended). Used wheels would need to be tested, but that's no big deal. Still cheaper than new. For now, I'm happy with these wheels and tires, but I do intend to try some different toe settings.

As to the BT plate, I have a car that handles (Austin-Healey Bug-Eye with RX-7 rotary engine and fat tires) so I don't need the Prius to do any better in that department. I don't think the plate would fix the wandering I feel as there are no twisting forces on the chassis at the times I feel the "vagueness..." which is during straight-down-the-road driving... with no wind.

GeronimoPFudgemuffin

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GeronimoPFudgemuffin @ Nov 12 2006, 01:55 PM) [snapback]347881[/snapback]</div>

There have been extensive trial and error reports by users in our modifications section.

I have a few notes I wrote down for myself for when I'm ready to buy....you can read through and toss or use if you like.. but there is a wealth of info on PC.
*OEM Tires are 855 revs per mile. When buying a tire, if you go up or down, you have to recalibrate the computer of mph will be off.
*2004+ Prius factory wheels weigh 6.5kg (14.8 Lbs) 15 X 6" 100mm PCD, 5 Hole, with 45mm offset.
*The factory Goodyear Integrity tire weighs 17 pounds
*If you want to improve fuel economy, you need to find a wheel + tire combination that weighs less than 31.33 pounds and do this without increasing rolling resistance very much.
A "higher perfomance" tire will always have greater Road Resistance than a tire like the Integrity.
*Michelin MXV4's get better mileage? Through Les Schwab cost 140.00 for Hydroedge and the harmony 130.00
Toyo Proxis TPT tire at les schwab 65K tire 100.00
Les Schwab Tires - Z800 Ultra 100K warranty P185/65Tr- 15BW are 97.00 each

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GeronimoPFudgemuffin @ Nov 12 2006, 06:55 AM) [snapback]347760[/snapback]</div>

Have to agree with you about running the original tires as far as they'll go before replacing them.

I was wondering, though, why you feel that low profile tires may have lower rolling resistance...? I suppose that there's less change in shape of the sidewalls as the tire rotates (this deformation contributes heat to the tire carcass and was one of the prime causes of failure of older bias ply tires)...but beyond that, isn't it usually the composition and weight of the tire itself and the shape of the tread that really helps/hinders MPG?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Nov 14 2006, 04:24 PM) [snapback]349079[/snapback]</div>

It means a bigger heavier wheel too. The tire weighs less, but often the added steel of the wheel outdoes the weight of rubber.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Nov 14 2006, 05:24 PM) [snapback]349079[/snapback]</div>

Yes, "may have." All other things being equal (and they seldom are), shorter sidewalls would mean less sidewall deformation. And while tread and other considerations impact rolling resistance, I'd imagine sidewall deformation to be the #1 source of rolling resistance. Just as inside an engine there are many sources of friction, but #1 comes from the rings.

For the record, I wouldn't consider changing wheels unless there was some benefit... and I mean besides "The Cool Factor." There are a blue million 16 wheels that are MUCH lighter than the Prius's alloy anchors, but it must be said that the run-of-mill type would be heavier. But not by much.

That's what shopping is all about. When it comes to wheels, there are a hundred ways to make a Prius worse. But then, there are some ways to improve it. I certainly hope no one thinks the stock Prius wheels (which are okay, BTW) are paragons of virtue. Like the OEM tires, they are a compromise. Not a bad compromise, but a compromise nonetheless. And thank goodness for "compromise." My wife may have liked Tom Selleck, but she was willing compromise and settle for me.

GeronimoPFudgemuffin

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GeronimoPFudgemuffin @ Nov 14 2006, 07:48 PM) [snapback]349237[/snapback]</div>

:lol: :lol: and your not tellin who you comprimised for are you?

 

So what do you think? (I just jumped in here without reading the previous posts.) Is the BT plate kick-nice person or not?

And will Darrell's wife vouch for this?

Or should I just STFU? (Sit Tight For Updates)

 

My local Toyota dealer installed the BT plate today, at no charge. They were very impressed with it's size and construction. Obviously if they put it in, this would in no way affect the warranty. I compared it to the factory plate, which is a thin, stamped POS.

Driving home from the dealer took me on a rather winding uphill road for several miles. That road has always taxed the Prius suspension, but not now. The car felt much more in control. Not like a Miata, but pretty close!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Clarinetist @ Nov 17 2006, 06:38 PM) [snapback]351227[/snapback]</div>

ah nonsense.. surely your hallucinating with your placebo induced delusions! :lol: :lol:

And what do you mean a POS?.. why thats impossible.. thats a certified POS from Toyota's part department.. surely your mistaken?..... have you taken your pills today? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hope you know I'm being sarcastic!.. since I don't recognize your name.. I thought I better clarify myself....you may not appreciate my humor!!!

No matter if "another" 1000 more people rave over it... those who choose to doubt will doubt....

***Hey Brian.. maybe we need to start a new church and you can get all kinds of tax wright-offs!...Its all about delusion and money right?

We can call it the Church of the BT Plate!.. and put a nice big picture of the plate on the sign out front and behind the pulpit and hold services every sunday... and stand up and say "all hail to the plate!"... "for the plate is worthy to recieve honor and glory!".... every sunday!... and best of all.. we can execute all non-believers who refuse to repent and accept the truth!

Oh and we must make sure when we pass the communion plate.. its filled with our secret reciepe of hallucinagenic communion wine that makes you believe everything you hear! :lol: :lol: :lol:



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alnilam @ Nov 15 2006, 01:49 AM) [snapback]349371[/snapback]</div>

:lol: :lol: :lol: .... I"m glad you clarified that!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Clarinetist @ Nov 17 2006, 06:38 PM) [snapback]351227[/snapback]</div>

Hello Clarinetist........ sorry for the abrupt welcome!....

My previous post was maybe a bit too sarcastic since you don't know who I am... there has been alot of previous discussion.. probrably before your presence by a handful of people suggesting placebo effects etc....

I too feel the plate is a marvelous improvement to the ride.... but some "who have never had the guts to actually buy it" are sure its all fake and the percieved benifits are only delusional perceptions.

Hope you didn't think I was directing anything at you....

Your in the majority..... the only skeptics are the ones who don't own it!

 

There is only one way to solve the "Placebo effect" question.

Science!

There are 5 Prius in the parking lot. I'm going to find one who want's to participate in a scientific test. Install the plate in one (secretly), and have all the drivers drive both the modified and a stock over a given course. Maybe ten drivers, they then vote for the car that handles best.

Would have to be two identical colors because I'm sure a black one would handle better than a green one!

If anyone has actually done this I'd like to know.

 

That's a great idea! I will be very interested in the results.