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To Replace Oil Pump, or Not To Replace Oil Pump . . .

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by freckledfroggy, Mar 3, 2022.

  1. freckledfroggy

    freckledfroggy New Member

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    First time posting -- must say, have benefitted greatly from this forum, particularly in the past three months. Thank you to all who post their experiences, expertise, and PDFs from the service manual for the 2010 Prius / 3rd gen stuff (special shout-out to Mendel Leisk whose uploads have saved me more than once in this process).

    Quick up-to-speed: 2010 Prius II, at 247,750 miles (mostly long distance highway travel), second owner, purchased June 2014 at ~ 70k miles. Since then, all regular maintenance on schedule, Mobil 1 and/or oil and filters only, detail-oriented and slightly anal-retentive attention to that sort of thing. Started having weird acceleration shudders last August, very sporadic. Then started losing coolant in September. Kept a close eye, checked every day before start-up, found milkshake in early December. Been rebuilding engine since then, in my not-so-abundant free time (I'm a middle school teacher and adjunct college instructor).

    At this point, I've done everything you'd imagine I'd do in this scenario: took everything down to the short block; had head off to clean, pressure test, check for warpage (no machining necessary, comments very positive on condition upon pickup); re-installed head, cam shaft assembly, timing chain cover using engine rebuild kit from Toyota; also did a whole bunch of preventative stuff for a 12-year-old, quarter-million-mile car, like all (and I do mean all) ICE coolant hoses and clamps, any rusted-out or overly rusty hardware, water pump, etc.

    Now, because there seems to be an awful lot of rust in my engine bay -- not sure why or if unusual -- my engine oil dipstick tube has snapped off (thanks, Dad, LOL) leaving the end inside the port along with the o-ring. Not enough left it seems to get enough leverage to pull it out, so Dad thinks I'll need to pop the oil pan off and push it out from inside. I have time to figure this out, though, as the replacement dipstick tube is backordered for another week. Wheep whomp.

    Big question: do I go ahead and change the oil pump while I'm in there? It's the last preventative measure I would probably have already decided to do if I'd already had to have taken the oil pan off anyway, which I didn't up until now. What say you all?

    Corollary: if I can ask for any experienced advice or perhaps relevant manual sections, I'd be so very appreciative. Can I do the oil pump just by having the pan off? No big deal that everything is rebuilt to the point of putting the top cover back on? Definitely not into taking that damn timing chain cover off again -- my sanity barely survived the intricate assembly specs the first time.

    Many thanks!!! =)

    (P.S. I'm debating a post about this entire process, and random things I found to be helpful along the way, but it would likely have to be once summer comes and I have time to sit down and revisit everything. I will say, I think I figured out a great way to manage the timing chain cover reinstall without screwing up the FIPG with the engine IN the car (didn't have the luxury of a hoist).)
     
  2. tankyuong

    tankyuong Senior Member

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    If it ain't broke don't fix
     
  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Timing cover needs off for access to the oil pump chain and drive sprocket. If it weren't for those, you'd have an easy job through just the no. 2 oil pan.

    Did you do the specified checks on the oil pump when you had things apart the first time?

    op.png


    I'm generally in favor of the "measure and replace if needed" approach. The "while I'm in here, might as well" approach can add up costs surprisingly quickly, even if a lot of the engine parts don't seem super expensive each by each.
     
    freckledfroggy likes this.
  4. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    One thing you didn't mention is if you changed the water pump, if you did not change that during your rebuild process, I would highly suggest you do that.
     
    freckledfroggy likes this.
  5. freckledfroggy

    freckledfroggy New Member

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    Dammit. Figured. Thought that was what I was seeing on the crappy schematics I was able to find, but wanted to be sure. Thx!

    I didn't see that in what I was working with, and was told at one point by a service tech not to worry about anything to do with the oil pump, sprocket, or chain if they hadn't presented any problems. I tried my damnedest to be thorough and exact with my work, but I feel like the lack of transparency of repair information for the DIYer for something that one has paid a pretty penny to own and maintain is a crime. I would've loved to have a clearer sense of everything I should examine, measure, check, etc. during this tear-down and rebuild! I guess I'll just have to cross my fingers on this one. Thx for the information -- should've posted about this sooner, obvs.

    That is very true, RE: costs. I'm around $2k in at this point, with all of the stuff I've "proactively" swapped.
     
  6. freckledfroggy

    freckledfroggy New Member

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    Oh, yeah. Done-zo. =) Thx!
     
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  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    As far as transparency, the drawings and specs I posted above were straight from the Repair Manual, which is available in all of the ways detailed on this wiki page. Some of them involve a small fee (like the $20 subscription using TIS directly) while others available to you may be free (if you have access to a library that participates, etc.).

    Ow!

    On the "transparency of repair information for the DIYer", I often see people on PriusChat seeming to build some kind of absolute dichotomy in their own minds, where anything free on the internet = "available to the DIYer", and anything with a cost, even just $20, = "not available to the DIYer", so they totally rule out making use of the exact resources where the information they want is ... even when that cost would be quite small relative to what they're looking at spending on a given repair, and really really small relative to their investment in the car.
     
    freckledfroggy likes this.
  8. freckledfroggy

    freckledfroggy New Member

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    I'll be more clear -- I think that any time I spend as much as one does on a car, I should have complete and constantly updated access to the official repair and maintenance manual, laid out in a logical and user-friendly fashion, for free. =)
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Ok, but does that mean that if it ends up being a $20 subscription, rather than free as you would prefer, you'll show Toyota by acting like the information isn't there, and try to improvise your way through expensive/risky repair projects without it?

    I'm not the person who sets their policy. The great thing about their TIS arrangement is that once you're in, you've got everything: all the manuals, wiring diagrams, recalls, TSBs, technical guides, even their own technician training course materials, for every model and year of Toyota/Lexus/Scion ever made.

    If they took suggestions from me, I'd ask them to also set something up that might have a one-time flat fee, and it would limit me to just the manuals and documents for my own model and year, and it wouldn't expire, and it would work offline, in case I had a breakdown where there wasn't network coverage.

    One way or another, they do have to pay the folks who write, edit, compile, and translate the manuals. Even just a good translator who is not only fluent in Japanese and English but knows enough engineering to not make gibberish of the translation can't come cheap.

    Yes, they could roll that into the selling price of every car ... but they do sell a lot of cars to people who aren't in the audience for that information.
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    In all seriousness, I'd vote for that!

    And no pay parking at hospitals...