Featured Toyota bZ4X Specifications Revealed

That's why I think it's not using LFP. It would be heavier with such a big battery.

 

Of course limiting the charge to 80% will extend the battery's life, but is there evidence that the upper limit manufacturers now use lead to unacceptable degradation.

A lot of data has been collected on Teslas. Many Model S and X out there have lost less than 10% of battery capacity at 100k miles. Of course, most of their charges were likely only to 80%. There is less data for the Bolt, but what has been reported has the battery capacity loss in line with that of Tesla's. Unknown is whether that evidence comes from owners making use of the manual charge limit. One did start making more use of it after 70k miles, though that only put the charge limit at 88%..

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Toyota's announced battery warranty of less than 10% loss by 100k miles is something most available BEVs already can meet as is. Manufacturers that want to match Toyota's warranty in writing will likely increase their top battery buffer, but a 80% max charge will mean a higher price for the car's listed range.

 

Toyota will have their own recipe, but it's reasonable that some traits will be shared. Not as heavy would be a plus, but some of that could be attributed to better packaging.

 

The battery and battery management controller are a system where the chemistry and circuit characteristics have to match. So I tend to not worry about the specific chemistry as I’m not on a design team. But I do prefer cells with lower cost, more abundant chemistry.

A former Prius owner, three models, the instant torque works for me. As long as the EV keeps up with traffic and the fast DC charging network is dense enough and reliable, not a problem.

Bob Wilson

 

Are you claiming Toyota has LFP with better energy density/specific energy?

Tesla's current Li-ion cells have a specific energy of 260Wh/kg, which would be almost 605 pounds for just the cells in a pack of the bZ4X's capacity. The Model 3 SR pack has an specific energy of 150Wh/kg, for a 1048 pound bZ4X pack.

CATL LFP's cells can reach 150Wh/kg. The packs they supply to Tesla are 126Wh/kg. A 1248 pound pack for the Toyota.

VW's have always been on the heavy side. Under cutting their weight is easy. Ford has plenty of experience in cutting weight. The Mach-e with battery around the bZ4X capacity is in the 4400 pound range. The Escape and Rav4 are in the same weight range. The bZ4X starts a couple hundred pounds lighter than the Mach-e, but not likely with LFP.

 

Easily overcome with software by making the user have to chose to go beyond 80% or by asking "are you going on a trip?" if you chose to charge more than 80%, for example.

Mike

 

Subaru sent me an email. Can order your Solterra tomorrow. Refundable $250 deposit is required. Need to get with your local dealer and work out financing, pricing, availability and, of course, your order between April and May of this year. Deliveries expected to begin mid 2022. Unlike Toyota, I'm pretty sure Subaru has plenty of cap space for the tax credit for those willing to wait and get assured of a $7,500 tax credit. If not this year maybe next or the year after. Availability will be limited.

Wonder where Toyota's announcement is?

 

Perhaps "@Tideland Prius" can put in a new topic under Other Cars for Subaru so we can keep track of orders and deliveries. This could be exciting.

 

I caught a brief mention of a drive event in early March. It wouldn't surprise me if that is an embargo date and we'll get a bunch of info then along with reviews. It totally makes sense that Subaru gets a spotlight in the meantime.

 

I think this a first for Subaru on a couple of levels. First time they are selling a BEV and first time they are setting up an ordering system for a car. Maybe they'll mimic Toyota's SmartPath and attempt to start selling cars remotely. A local Toyota dealer here is already using SmartPath.

 

It took a couple years of me nagging in order to get a category for Lexus hybrid SUVs. So hopefully things have improved.

EDIT
Undoubtedly Subaru will have learned from the Folly of Nissan trying to do thermal management without a liquid environment.
Right?
.

 

Definitely thermal management is via liquid. Made on the same line as Toyota’s bZ4X and both SUV’s batteries are cooled via antifreeze.


iPad ? Pro

 

It is important to note that Subaru's reservation system is not an ordering system. It isn't a deposit on a particular car. Hyundai did the same thing with the Ioniq 5--a $100 'reservation' system. It turned out that all that $100 did was put your name on a list of contacts for the dealer, to use or ignore as he wished. When cars started showing up the cars got sold to people who had cash on hand, $5k to 10k over MSRP, whether they were on any list or not. In my case, I had a 'reservation' but never ended up getting contacted by any dealer. I got my $100 back and gave up on buying that car. Subaru's $200 'reservation' looks very much like Hyundai's. If so, you'll have to buy the car the old fashioned way--call the dealer (or, more likely, lots of dealers), and do some haggling and try to make a deal.

I certainly hope that Toyota doesn't follow this fake 'reservation' list trend.

 

What is the SmartPath? Is that new ordering system for Toyota?

Yeah, I don't know how Subaru's "reservation" system works, but it is not an ordering system. The FAQ clearly says it does not guarantee anything. Just for correction, it is a $250 fully-refundable fee. I just put my name on the reservation yesterday, and I got call from Subaru marketing HQ and the local dealer I selected to confirm my "reservation". Will see, where this ends up.

Source: Solterra Reservation

 

You got a call from your local dealer--that's already an improvement over Hyundai's 'reservation' system.

 

The system does not allow more than one reservation per person. And have to pick a dealer participating in the reservation opportunity. If the dealer is not currently participating in the reservation, then you can put your name on the "Join a Waitlist". In my case, the closest Subaru dealer had the "Join a Waitlist" posted. So, I had to pick a dealer further away which is currently participating in the reservation. At least I got calls from both marketing HQ and the selected local Subaru dealer. So far so good, but the allocation is likely to be extremely low, so I am not very hopeful that I can get a hand on the first production model this year.

 

Hyundai reservation was a service to assist buyers and the $100 was fully refundable with a strong reference that this was not a buying program

2022 IONIQ 5 Insider Program | Terms & Conditions | Hyundai (hyundaiusa.com)


"This is not a vehicle order or purchase."

"Participation in this Program is  NOT a vehicle purchase and does not guarantee delivery"

"After you complete your digital configuration, you will be asked to make a $100 fully refundable deposit (“Deposit”)."

Agree the Hyundai reservation process could be misleading and requires thorough reading before participating in it. Unfortunately, all Car Makers have some poor Dealerships that don't follow up.

Link to a quick explanation of Toyota Smart Path for those not familiar with it
SmartPath is Now Toyota Dealers’ Online System of Choice - Toyota USA Newsroom

 

That's the thing. I wasn't 'participating' in anything when I paid the $100. It is a good thing I didn't just sit back and wait for that call and instead paid attention to Hyundai forums and saw people without any reservations buying these cars at all the dealerships. It was pure hokum. The $5k to 10k markups put the car out of my budget range anyway.

I decided to get a new Prius Prime (my 2017 is going to my son) and sit out buying a pure EV until the market becomes more 'mature' (more cars, better prices, no markups). I didn't get anywhere with this 'SmartPath'--none of the dealerships in my area are part of it I guess. They want to do things the old-fashion way--you come in and they play the 'dealership' game with you. I did find one dealer willing to do the discussions and deposit by email. The car is supposedly coming in the next week or so. We'll see how it goes.

 

I just checked the Hyundai site and found 7 Ioniq 5 listed in inventory at local dealers. I am not sure if they are all already spoken for or not. The price range is $48,760 for SE to $53,040 for SEL. That's MSRP and I assume without destination fee? Yeah, that already put the car out of my budget range too. I can find MachE AWD for ~$47K. I hope Toyota and Subaru will be less, but somehow I have a doubt.