I'm Prius-damaged

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Oct 30 2006, 12:44 AM) [snapback]340525[/snapback]</div>

I am a 2 Prii owner. A 2001 and fully decked out 2006 (nav, mp3, HID)... I'm already saving up for my next Prius in 2011.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Nov 3 2006, 01:04 PM) [snapback]343460[/snapback]</div>

I think we basically do agree that electric cars could meet most people's needs most of the time....but its also true that EVs completely fail to meet their needs a small part of the time. I just drove down to Napa to visit the Ansel Adams exhibit. Day trip, approx 195 miles. I do this only 5-6 few times a year. It would be impossible in an electric vehicle, but totally fine in the hybrid. Yeah, electric cars are great for short-ish trips, the kind most people do most of the time. But very few people outside the "true believer" class will buy a vehicle that has "limited range" stamped all over it. I think most folks DO take trips over 100 or 200 miles frequently enough that they would see EVs as half baked.

Its the same story where the electric vehicle fails to meet the needs of 90% of the people, 10% of the time. Most of the time, EV is great...but then a few times its unusable. EVs simply can't make a medium (or longer) distance trip. And that's a dealbreaker for most buyers. Plus, it virtually requires everyone to have 2 cars with one being some sort of petrol car...

Is it fair? I mean, people could just rent a petrol car for longer trips...but the same flawed logic compels people to buy SUVs. They love the idea that they can haul all kinds of stuff, even when they rarely do. They like the idea that they CAN if they want to. They love the idea that they could go off-road, even if they never actually do. They like the idea that they COULD.

With an electric, you'd always ask..."can I make it?? Sure, I'd like to drive to San Francisco. Its 110 miles, and I can make there and back it IF the Hotel lets me charge up overnight. Wait, I want to go for a day trip. Where can I park? Will they have parking with electricity? What if I have to park in a Private garage...will they have an outlet for me? "

Nobody wants to have conversations like this. Which is why the Prius is so brilliant. it combines the best of both, although arguably the ratio of gas to electric could be improved. I'd love to see a plug-in hybrid version...and that seems to be the real solution. Mid size battery pack for 50-60 mile range so the vast majority of "running around" is fully electric. But the availability of petrol backup for no-limits longer trips. You could drive a plug-in hybrid from CA to Wyoming to visit Yellowstone, but an EV would be impossible. Or at least REALLY painful.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bryanmsi @ Nov 4 2006, 12:23 AM) [snapback]343682[/snapback]</div>

You're basing your opinion on my 10-year-old EV tech vehicle with 100 miles range? Today's EVs would have no problem with a 200+ mile trip. Next problem?

As long as we ignore the social, political, econimic and security concerns of burning gasoline, you are right that EVs don't look so hot for ALL situations. We're in agreement there. Unfortunately, I can't ignore those aspects.

And while you're right that the easiest way to own an EV today is to also own a liquid-fueled car (like I do)... we already have hundreds of millions of two-car households in the US, so this really isn't much of a hurdle. Today an EV isn't the right choice for everybody. Just for most.

My point, in case it isn't always obvious - is that we should have EVs available for those who do what to give it a go. And today a guy like me has no choice to own a production EV. And that just sucks. To buy a new full-featured car today, I have very few options for energy source.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Nov 4 2006, 12:25 PM) [snapback]343858[/snapback]</div>

Actually, no, I was basing it on the 200 mile range of the worlds most advanced (and yet unreleased) electric vechicle, the Tesla roadster. Unless you can count on charging availability at the destination, your range must be cut in half so you can get home before the juice runs out. Which means unless I could have found 2-3 hours of plug in time somewhere in Napa, I would be dangerously close to not making it back home.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of an EV. But until we get the 200mile range with 5 minute charge time, they won't take the world by storm.

 

Few things...

1. I don't expect EVs to take the world by storm. I simply expect them to be available for those of us who don't need to burn gasoline for all of our vehicle trips. When EVs are available, the other conveniences (like fast, convenient chargers) will follow.

2. Both the Li-ion ACP Tzero and the Tesla are quite capable of 300 mile range, and can be charged from ANY outlet. Plus we have 1200 free public chargers across CA. The trip in question, again, is nowhere near "impossible" or even remotely scary in a modern EV - the cars we'd have on the road by now from the big makers if we could pull our collective heads out of where our heads shouldn't be.

3. If we actually put some emphasis on EVs, we'd have plenty of convenient places to charge. Businesses would add chargers to attract visitors - as they did back in the 90's when the current infrastructure was put in place. And we already have fast-charge technology. Have had it for over ten years. All we really have to do is build the cars that can use it, and implement it. It is currently used every day in ground support EVs at airports across the country.

Thanks for the civil discussion (my end coming from a visit to SF, 85 miles from home, in my 100-mile range EV).

Say... we aren't dragging this thread OT are we? Sorry. My fault as usual!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Nov 4 2006, 08:22 PM) [snapback]343988[/snapback]</div>

My fault too - But I'm enjoying the discussion! I love being challenged, and you've had some great responses!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bryanmsi @ Nov 4 2006, 10:02 PM) [snapback]344006[/snapback]</div>

I typically go to the extreme (that wasn't obvious, right?), so it is good to have somebody keep me centered every now and again.

 

I'm having a similar issue with my parents. Their car is its deathbed, so they need to buy something. all I can suggest is a.....Prius.