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Coolant loss from expansion tank

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by BusterG, Aug 31, 2021.

  1. BusterG

    BusterG New Member

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    The car: 2015 Prius Four 127000 miles. All routine maintenance done on schedule. No accidents.

    The problem (short story): Coolant loss from engine (not hybrid drive side). It appears that the car is intermittently blowing coolant out of the internal combustion engine coolant expansion tank (what Toyota call the reserve tank) around the cap. I replaced the cap but the problem persists. I see wet and dry coolant spray on the top of the tank, some on the inside of the hood and a lot on the right engine bay to the right of the tank; none around any other cooling system parts.

    Long story: I got a check engine light about three weeks ago. I didn't have a code reader at the time. I reset the gas cap and light went out. The a few days later when I was changing the oil I noticed the coolant was so low it just covered the outflow hose. Topped off coolant, bought code reader. Code P0117 engine coolant temp sensor 1 circuit low and P148F engine coolant pump over revolution. I suspect those codes came up due to air in the system from the low coolant and resolved when the air got out. I reset the codes at that point.
    Then on two separate days about a week apart I got a very brief overheat light (few seconds) while driving up a hill. On both occasions I got out and noted the coolant was low again. I suspect the overheat light was due to low coolant levels that allowed air into the system (car going uphill, coolant sloshes to the back of the tank and exposes the outflow hose to air, air bubble gets into system, car gets hot until bubble escapes). Topping off coolant resolves issues.

    No recurrence of code P148F (pump over rev). Had one recurrence of P0117 (coolant temp) when coolant was low and the overheat light came on when I was going up hill the second time. That second time I got a check engine light with the overheat light. No check engine light the first time.

    The problem is not consistent. I can go three or more days without coolant loss/spray then it will spray out sometimes only a little (like half inch) and sometimes spray out most of the reservoir. It does not appear to do this after I drive while car is cooling off, only when driving. I've had no apparent coolant loss overnight.

    The other day I had a brief overheat light while driving on level highway. Coolant level was full when I checked it so I finally took it to the dealer and they pressure tested the reservoir, put in on Techstream and couldn't find a problem. The tech took it home that night and drove it for an hour but could not duplicate the issue or find anything else wrong. Radiator fans both operating normally. No leaks anywhere.

    My thoughts:
    1. coolant reservoir is leaking (but it passed pressure test)
    2. cap is bad but that would mean the old and a new OE cap are both bad, so not likely.
    3. head gasket leaking? (no odor of combustion gasses in the tank, tank is clean, no bubbling in coolant, car runs fine, no misfire)
    4. thermostat is sticking but then the overheat light would be on?

    Any help appreciated. I'm trying to not just randomly replace parts.
     
  2. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    I'd look at the electric water pump;).

    Signs are pointing to that as the issue:).

    Had a former co-worker who had similar symptoms you describe and he replaced the pump and no problem thereafter:).

    Something to consider(y).
     
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  3. BusterG

    BusterG New Member

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    I appreciate your response. I'm curious as to why the pump causes that but will likely give it a try. Seems like the pump is a frequent failure point for the cooling system.
     
  4. Colorado Boo

    Colorado Boo Active Member

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    Yep my first thought was water pump but you don't want to wait to get that checked out....wouldn't want any coolant to get into the engine. Keep us posted!
     
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  5. BusterG

    BusterG New Member

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    I would have thought the Toyota Techstream software would have detected a failure there but maybe not.
     
  6. zeng

    zeng Junior Member

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    Is the engine oil level 'rising' ?
    You may want to do a blotter spot test on as-is engine oil within the oil sump, as a way of looking out for glycol coolant leaks/contamination.
    This test is free and easy.
     
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    My vote is also going to pressure cap venting, as result of engine overheating, as result of water pump malfunction. If corrected in time, it might not go beyond that.
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Have you checked the EGR system condition? IIRC coolant hoses blowing off is one of the head gasket failure symptoms. With your miles it's for sure due anyway, whether or not it's causing your current issue. Starting with a check of the pipe between EGR valve and intake manifold is the easiest first step. More info in my signature.
     
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    If your hat is too tight and your head hurts, take the hat off before getting a brain cancer workup.

    Pump failure was indicated, and pump failure causes overheating, and overheating causes expansion and pressure rise, which the reservoir cap is designed to relieve.

    It is also possible for head gaskets to be damaged, and overheating leading to warpage is even one of the ways that can happen, which is why it's a good idea to correct the cause of the overheating straightaway; the hope is to avoid further damage.

    When changing a water pump with signs of overheating, it can be prudent to change the thermostat too, as overheating can damage those, in a way that perpetuates overheating later, even with a good pump.

    If you then want to be sure whether you do or don't have head gasket cancer, a leakdown test can tell you that. And if you find out you don't, and you're persuaded that EGR cleaning helps keep it that way, then that's a thing that can be put on the schedule.

    But stop the overheating....
     
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  10. BusterG

    BusterG New Member

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    Thanks for the info. There's no apparent oil level increase. I haven't done the blotter test as I was not familiar with it but will do so. Thanks.
     
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  11. jdanks

    jdanks New Member

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    Hi Buster G,
    I'm having the exact same thing going on with my 2012 Prius. Same P0117 and P148F codes. Coolant only escaping from the expansion tank, no coolant in the oil and no coolant in the combustion chamber and no other codes.
    Please let me know what you do to fix the issue.
    It seems everyone is calling out the water pump as the issue, however If I turn on the heater, it blows hot air. The heater blowing hot air indicates that the coolant is circulating...right?
    Im hesitant to replace the water pump at this point as it seems like the coolant is circulating.
    Please let me know what you find out.
    Thanks ,
    John
     
  12. BusterG

    BusterG New Member

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    I have the same reservations you are but it may be that the coolant is circulating just not at an adequate flow rate if the pump is failing. There are only so many parts to the cooling system and the water pump appears to be a common failure point. I have not yet checked the EGR system or done the blot test but once that's done I will replace the pump and will post here what the outcome is. Since the problem is intermittent it may take a while to be sure it's fully resolved.

    How do you know the combustion chambers are clear of coolant, did you scope them? Did you get the codes when the coolant was low in the expansion tank?
     
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Everyone isn't just making that up. P148F is a code specific to the water pump. It was added in 2011 (2010 did not detect pump overrevving) because the pump is known to have a failure mode where the impeller separates. The pump motor then hits excessive RPM because it is not effectively moving water. The P0117 indicates the resulting overheat.
     
  14. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    You may have a blown head gasket. If the coolant tank is oveflowing, the head gasket could
    be leaking under pressure near a coolant passage and pushing the coolant out.
    I had this problem on a Ford Van....
    You should do a leak down test and a pressure test....
     
  15. zeng

    zeng Junior Member

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    In your context, if the vehicle is 'allowed' by the computer chip to drive up to say, 20 minutes or more it simply means the coolant is circulating, albeit at reduced flow rate, hence providing heat source (at reduced capacity) to the functioning heater.
    I would speculate your reduction in coolant circulating rate probably points to water pump flow rate related failure.
     
  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    and if you don't have one yet, fixing the water pump issue and getting the overheating under control will help keep it that way.
     
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  17. zeng

    zeng Junior Member

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    Edit: As suggested above head gasket leakage may not be ruled out.
     
  18. zeng

    zeng Junior Member

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    No apparent increase in oil level points to zero or 'miniature' amount of leakage into oil system.
    A simple engine oil blotter spot test would rule out that 'miniature' coolant contamination, if one exists.
    Then, it likely points to reduced coolant flow rate from a failing pump, as suggested by others.
     
  19. BusterG

    BusterG New Member

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    I am definitely changing the pump and appreciate everyone's help and opinion. This forum has been far more helpful (and cheaper) than the Toyota dealership.

    I wonder why the pump doesn't throw out another over rev fault code after the first one. If I'd had that code a second time especially with a full coolant reservoir I would have changed the pump right away. I had assumed I got the P148F code due to air getting into the system from the low reservoir. I did drain some coolant from the radiator early on and watched the coolant get pumped down from the reservoir which is why I didn't think it was a pump issue. With mechanical pumps I assume they are always turning at a constant speed from the belt but with an electric one I suppose it's possible for it to have an intermittent failure? Anyone know more about this? It's interesting that the 2010 model year did not have this code but apparently Toyota became aware of the issue and added it but maybe didn't fix the underlying pump failure problem. Also I've had no coolant venting from the cap for the past two days which makes me think it's intermittent.

    This question is purely academic. The pump is getting swapped tonight and thankfully the car seems to still be working fine with no misfires or apparent internal coolant loss.
     
  20. zeng

    zeng Junior Member

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    Can anyone knowledgeable details a typical failure mechaniism sequencing like mechanical (a) > electrical (b) > mechanical (c) > electrical (d) > and on ...... with :
    say, (b) being the initiating factor and say, (f) being 'the last straw' if you know what I mean? ....
    whilst pending if OP could update with pictures for identifying the 'the last straw' , if available.