Featured Here’s Why The 2021 Toyota Prius Has Become An Undesirable Electrified Car

Or:

If there’s no audience
There ain’t no show

 

'know your audience'

uh-oh, i'm in trouble now

 

actually, the 'know your audience' mantra is doublespeak for 'make more landcruisers'. and we should give more credit to gm, ford and chrysler for knowing theirs

 

But - there's still a market there in Japan - yes diminished. And yes, YARIS & Corolla sell more - but they're considerably cheaper (and can be bought in fairly austere form, where a PRIUS is better equipped.

The KEI car market is far bigger (bigger in more cars, but they're TINY) - but it's dropped considerably - the biggest seller there was still Honda N-BOX 150,820 cars in the same period.

 

I think the reason for Bipolar NiMH is that it's better than NiMH and I assume it's cheaper or has better availability than Li-Ion.

PHEV's have greater EV range but they are not necessarily faster. The RAV4 Prime is quick because it has a powerful electric motor and a battery than can deliver the required power. Bipolar NiMH has twice the power of conventional NiMH and that may be enough to match Li-Ion, allowing Toyota to increase conventional hybrid performance significantly whilst keeping them cheaper than PHEVs.

Yes to achieve 45%, Toyota will need turbo charging. Toyota released a paper in 2016 (Engine Technologies for Achieving 45% Thermal Efficiency of S.I. Engine) detailing achievement of 45% thermal efficiency in a test engine. This included long stroke, high tumble rate, lean burn, cooled EGR and a turbo but nothing that is significantly expensive. This would achieve a 10% saving in fuel and CO2 which is significant, eventually across 10 million vehicles per annum.

 

I actually think the dynamic turn signals are a distraction and are contrary to the purpose of the indicator.

 

I've only been in Tokyo a couple weeks and haven't had much time to explore but it's hard to find a normal-size passenger car that isn't a Toyota hybrid- though I don't see very many actual Priuseses.

Hybrid-badged Corollas, Sientas & Aquas galore. Also lots of JPN TAXIs which also have the HSD.

I've also seen quite a few Mirais wearing the official Olympic transport vinyl wraps.

 

I did not realise Toyota was so dominant in Japan .. for non Kia cars.

 

I'm a bit surprised too. I mean it's not as if there aren't any Subarus, Nissans or Suzukis, but at a glance Toyota is well ahead.

 

Must include trucks - as HINO is there

 

Maybe its just me but I find I'm watching them and not the road. If brake lights made little patterns I would find that distracting as well. So are they banned in the US ?

 

One thing I hate, and really wish there was more research and regs on, is front turn signals tightly integrated into the headlight body. Even with headlights just at half-brightness (common CDN DRL method), and even worse with full-brightness headlights, the headlights can overwhelm the signal lights, make them nigh impossible to see.

Makes for fun guessing-games with oncoming traffic, which "may" be left-turning. To be sure takes protracted staring, which is never good when you're driving, should be glancing around.

 

I feel the same way about rear turn signals. On many cars the turn signal is washed out by the brake and/or tail light being on at the same time and some flash an orange light which is even harder to see. IMHO, the brake and tail light should be off when the rear turn signal is blinking...like Porsche or Audi and some other cars.

 

That video is nuts. Yes, Toyota never has been known as "cutting edge" because they can be almost painfully slow to make significant changes due to their quality emphasis. (Don't change something just for the sake of change....does the change IMPROVE it?) The other day, I was in the garage and opened the hoods on our cars to compare, 2017 Prius LE with the new 2021 Prius AWD. I was only able to spot about 3 small differences.
When is the last time you saw a news story showing a burning Prius? Do a Google search for "Chevy Bolt catches on Fire" 9.94 Million hits. Search for Tesla Catches on Fire: 1.73 Million hits. And Toyota Prius catches on fire: 126,000. That about says it all and we can safely park our cars in a garage, unlike the Bolt.

 

I agree with the first part, but let's see tests for the second. My guess is toyota is using bipolar nimh is they want to continue to make their own hybrid batteries and they can make that chemistry in there battery factories without much retooling while lithium. In the short run it may be cheaper for toyota, but I doubt it for the long run. Lion hybrid batteries have lots of room to run, but they are different and more expensive than Lion in a big phev or bev battery pack.

Let's look at lithium iron phosphate (the choice for tesla and bmw in their lower cost plug-ins). Cost to bus manufacturers are already down to $100/kwh at the pack level, and likely there for tesla already. If you build the next prius as a phev the battery pack say 12 kwh then it likely would cost toyota about $1200. It would need a cooling system and charging port and hardware, probably another $2000 to toyota. Then it is up to toyota how much profit they need on the $3200. Then they can save downsizing the engine to the yaris hybrid 3 cylinder that is 41% efficient. In 10 years that pack could be solid state and cost $900, and only require heating not cooling.

That is peak, so likely will need to be in a hybrid. Say toyota can sell 2 million hybrid vehicles 10% of of 20% is fuel savings of 2% on toyota's fleet. Say that that tech costs $1000/vehicle will it really sell versus the less expensive power turbos they and other manufacturers are using to replace 6 cylinder. Mercedes in project one started with a f1 engine that was 50% efficient, so 45% is not hard, but mercedes to get that engine to meet longevity and pollution goals dropped efficiency to 43%. Its probably doable to do it from the ground up and get an affordable 46% efficient engine. It would need a larger battery pack than the prius to maintain that and would use the excess power to charge the pack. Or maybe you go with a 2 cylinder design that is efficient down low.

 

Toyota has lead its home market for quite some time. The Aqua was number 1 seller since its release, and it displaced the Prius. Japan had some long running incentives for hybrids, and Toyota has the widest range of hybrid models. Then the inspection system there encourages a high turnover of new cars into the fleet. Would be hard to become #1 worldwide if you couldn't do it at home.

Isn't Daihatsu also Toyota?

Li-ion is cheaper. Toyota might have a cost advantage with NiMH, because of the large investments they made in the past. Then they are slow on the Li-ion investment. Bipolar will reduce the NiMH costs once production is up to scale, but the only other car makers using NiMH will be ones partnered with Toyota.

The new Aqua has twice the current because of the increased number of cells bipolar makes possible. Cell to cell, bipolar NiMH has 1.5 times the current of NiMH. Li-ion is 2 to 3 times the current of NiMH per cell. Toyota hybrids with Li-ion don't see a performance boost because they designed the pack to match the output of the NiMH one. Weight savings was the goal with it.

Bipolar batteries started in lead-acid ones. The technology could be adapted to Li-ion.

In the US at least, lean burn means the need of emission systems from diesels. The original Insight had a NOx trap because of lean burn. That will add to the price.

The US vehicle code is archaic. It bans the advanced dynamic headlights among other things. Those that can change it aren't interested in doing so.

I've seen cars that have LED 'eyebrows' for DRLs turn the corresponding one off with the blinker on.

It also helps Toyota's profit margins.

The Corolla used a 4 speed transmission for years after competitors switched to 6 speeds and CVTs. It was also years before the US Corolla got the better valve control systems. The savings of making that older technology didn't show up in the car's MSRP.

Search hits has more to do with what is news worthy. BEV fires are national news. The regularly occurring ICE car fire is local at best.

The Rav4 is being investigated for fires stemming from poor placement of of the hold down frame to the positive terminal of the starter battery. 1.9 Million Toyota RAV4 SUVs Investigated for Battery Fire Risk

Ford once recalled nearly 9 million vehicles because the ignition switch could start a fire even with the car off.
Ford Recalling 8.7 Million Vehicles Over Fire Danger - Los Angeles Times

The Prius has been recalled for a fire risk due to a worn out wiring harness. It was a million hybrids world wide. Toyota Recalls Prius Hybrids for Fire Risk - Consumer Reports
There have been multiple recalls over a stalling issue in the Prius.
Toyota recalls 2.4M Prius hybrid cars that could stall

Then there was the time Toyota decided to save some on engine production by reducing coolant passages in the block. That lead to oil sludging, which the company only acknowledged after being taken to court.
Toyota Agrees to Sludge Settlement for Consumers

Mass producing something with zero defects is impossible. Toyota has a good record, but they still mess up.

Most car fires have nothing to do with the fuel system of the car. The 12V system seems responsible for many. Long term, I expect BEVs to do slightly better, because they won't see a build up of spilled oil and grease on parts that get very hot.

 

I think I mentioned this above somewhere but it bears repeating. Why do we care about "the Prius"? What we should really care about, as Toyota fans , is that Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive is thriving. Personally, I could care less about "the Prius" nameplate/brand.

 

Each year, from 2014 to 2016, an estimated 171,500 highway vehicle fires occurred in the United States, resulting in an annual average of 345 deaths; 1,300 injuries; and $1.1 billion in property loss.1 These highway vehicle fires accounted for 13 percent of fires responded to by fire departments across the nation

http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/statistics/v19i2.pdf

A Toyota car fire is most likely reported in the news (if at all) as a car fire.

Every EV car fire is reported with make and model, as well as how long it took to extinguish, and all sorts of other details.

Mike