R-134a Auto A/C Refrigerant Inject Oil/No oil?

We do not remove all of the oil for minor operations in minor parts replacement.

Something like a condenser that had minor damage and it was just being removed it’s just a part replacement

Are when you buy a factory Toyota DENSO condenser usually comes with a little bag with brand new O-rings and a small metal can of ND 11 oil just enough for the condenser replacement for the oil that would have been lost in the first place.

If somebody is purchasing a cheap aftermarket condenser then you’re screwed glued and tattooed up the river without a paddle. You get nothing and you’re on your own.

The small metal can of ND 11 oil that came with the new DENSO condenser contains 40 mL of replacement oil which is roughly the quantity they suspect being lost just by replacing the condenser all by itself the O-rings you would have to source yourself when purchasing a non-OEM condenser


Now let’s get onto a major repair like a burnt out compressor that literally came apart in pieces with metal flake that litter the system and dark burn oil .
Sometimes when looking in the site glass you’ll see it’s not perfectly crystal clear and bright shiny aluminum . There will be a slight haze or film buildup on the inside of the glass and on the metal will be slightly dolled compared to a brand new line that is clean.

This is a clear indicator the compressor was ran low on refrigerant and extremely overheated and was low on oil prior to burning out.

Case you would also be replacing the expansion valve and at that time the expansion valve is removed you would be using your AC solvent flush to manually blow through the evaporator to clean it out and all your hoses and lines prior to replacing the brand new compressor and the brand new condenser and the brand new expansion valve.

Now you have a clean dry system with no oil in it and you’re starting from ground zero.

Now when you buy a brand new Toyota manufactured from DENSO manufacturing electric compressor unless otherwise specified by some documentation they sometimes have the complete for oil charge for a whole brand new system contained within them but you have to read the documentation. RTFM !!!...

 

Approximation gets better with years of experience when you were taught by somebody who already had 30 or 40 years experience when you come into the industry young.

It doesn’t matter how many years experience somebody has if they’ve been doing it wrong their whole entire life and just guessing.

After you have taken apart they are conditioning systems on several thousand vehicles and you literally measure the amount of oil on every vehicle you pour out of the compressor.
You measure the amount of oil that you get out of a accumulator
You measure the amount of oil you get out of a receiver dryer
You measure the amount of oil you get out of a evaporator

Can you see the difference where is the oil gets stuck and ends up at on a system that was ran low on oil compared to a system that had 100% of the factory charge operating normally there is a very big difference where the oil ends up

This is why the guys sometimes we do not maintenance the air conditioning by doing preventative maintenance periodic drain and recharge but they allow their system to run Low or run out of refrigerant and then the compressor burns up.

From the day every air conditioning system was manufactured on a car and charged it starts to leak from that day forward they are all very very very small leak in many places but they get worse as the years go by with expansion and contraction by heat in vibrating by driving down the road.

And then you get every now and then that one lucky person who hasn’t charged air conditioning in 20 years and it still nearly full it sometimes happens

 

Here’s a video of a leaking O ring at the condenser with an oil stain.
It may look like a lot of oil was lost to some people but that probably was not even a quarter ounce of oil that built up the dust accumulation and dirt.

And it’s also a very good photo is worth 1000 words no for those people who read books and only have a full knowledge that a low pressure sensor is supposed to protect your compressor from running when the refrigerant level is very low.

This next video shows locating the leak using electronic and refrigerant leak detector unfortunately using the bubble mess it did not work at this time and using the UV Trace dye did not work at this time but if it would have been allowed to run much longer for a few days and come back you would see a UV dye showing brightly.

 

You might be a little over on the oil on some compressors that does cause some noise trying to compress a higher ratio of oil to refrigerant

Even my personal vehicle makes a little bit of noise on start up and then quiets out it gets turned on at 7 o’clock in the morning and does not get turned off until roughly 6 PM to 7 PM at night every day 5 to 6 days a week about 330 days a year since 2012

 

Hi Howard--I dont know about a G3 but the G2 ac when running well will freeze you out at a light. It requires a healthy hybrid battery though. My bought new in 07 G2 was freezing at lights for years no problem but ever so slightly over the many years it gets a little less cold.
Even now with a fairly good leak it still is pretty cold in the garage but the second i go for a ride its cool not warm.
Really good ac system in a G2.

Not a believer in the throw a can at it I agree with Lech . I'm taking it in tomorrow to a pretty reputable ac shop tomorrow. Ice Cold Air.
Getting ready for a big $$$$ lol..

 

I am no expert on Gen3 A/C, but does the high side pressure seem low and the compressor RPM seem high for your ambient temperature? Some other cars won't activate the condensor fan unless the high side hits 200-225 psi or more.

Did you use a scale to weigh refrigerant when charging?

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

That is for some other cars for that condenser to come on and there’s even the other cars were condenser fan does not come on until 270 psi

I believe the indoor ambient temperature sensor was still sensing in the high 70s or 80° meaning there would be a load over the evaporator so it’s struggling to meet the demand temperature so it winds the compressor up higher RPMs to meet demand.

Once the inside demand is down and it has satisfied the ambient temperature on the inside of the vehicle the low side pressure will drop more .
Then there will be not much load on the evaporator the low side will bring down the temperature of the evaporator to once the sensor picks that up the RPMs on the compressor will go down

 

@edthefox,

Fill us in brother!! How did the visit go for AC repair?

Seems like your situation would have been ideal (just my opinion) for following the Toyo manual procedure based on the symptoms you describe about how AC currently worked and the fluid appearance. I know it's not the 'perfect way to do it', but personally, I would have just gotten a 12 ounce can of R134a for $6, performed a 'slow add' until the bubbles went away and then add ~100g additional to get it into the sweet spot of the pressure/temperature curve. BUT, I completely understand letting an AC shop handle it. Sometimes things are more involved than they appear. I'm just very curious as to what they found or what they say they did to resolve your symptoms and at what approximate cost. And do you feel they did you right, because I haven't found a shop yet (other than for tires), auto repair or "home residential", that hasn't tried to put the screw to me.

 

The worst news ever and exactly what I expected. Leaky ecoil under the dash. Was hoping it was not that so that doubled the chances of it being that lol. $1024 to replace the eoil box and expansion valve. Seems cheap to me....

I'm afraid to look up the cost of that ecoil box. Thought it would be more for that repair the R&R is horrible. Said they just did another G2 same issue 2 days ago so guess its just its age. Brought it in before the compressor grenaded itself. Thanks to Lech I looked at the sight glass and saw lots of micro size bubbles flowing through the sight glass super fast. Did not turn on the ac from that point on.

My wife loves the car will not give it up or else I would have sold it.

I talked to the owner and asked if it would be more than a day could he please put my car inside and he stopped me and said cat right?
yes... Wow....He told me some horror story about a Toyota dealership last week got hit for 60 cats overnight. I said 60 he says 60! lol...

And says other car shops report of many many cat hits. Crap i thought since I have not got clipped it was not too bad. Its bad.

 

mmm What is an eoil box? And/or ecoil box???
Is that some specific to the Prius?

 

Evaporator coil.

Assuming the "box" is the whole HVAC enclosure, though I think one would normally just replace the coil, unless something else is also wrong.