Featured Shareholders Concerned About Toyota Anti-Electric Car Lobbying

"Models" is nothing but usable platform deployment. There is no volume or market statement. There is no commitment or consequence. There isn't even any accountability.

Reading for detail, we find "VW has said that 2026 will be the final year the group develops a combustion platform." That means the title isn't really what it implies. ICE production will continue on for at least a product-cycle, starting in 2026... which means another 5 years of use, minimum. You don't invest, then abandon. That platform will support final ICE models, what will become phaseout vehicles.

In short, that will be far from 100% in 2026.

 

Fair enough. But in order to not obfuscate the point, companies are setting dates to get away, 100%, from fossil fuels. Consider the list;
Car Companies That Are Pledging to Transition to Electric Energy
Not that it matters that I don't personally think it's necessary ..... the point is, the momentum for BEV is increasing.
Toyota shareholders have legitimate questions when they wonder why their chosen company isn't leading the charge - rather than being forced (in large part) over onto to BEV's in order to maintain sales relevance in China.
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Come on hill. That 10% is for Toyota europe not china. China's mandate will be higher than that. Even if we call phevs and fuel cell cars bevs -toyota and its subsidiaries only sold or leased 53,629 in 2020. That is only 0.6% of sales. They were hamstrung by the inability to make batteries for more plug-ins and demand for their fuel cell vehicles, but that was their decision. VW on the other hand sold 212,000 plug-ins last year world wide or 4% of sales, and 10.5% of its European sales. VW Group the apples to apples sold almost half a million plug-ins. BMW sales in Europe were 15% plug-ins. In 2017 bmw set that 15% as a goal for 2025. Every tesla - 100% sold in Europe and china were plug-ins.

Toyota has no where to go but grow from these levels. Hopefully they will build or buy enough batteries. 10% of European sales last year for toyta/lexus would have been 96 thousand vehicles. That should be easy by 2025 ;-) and maybe the lobbying against plug-ins will end. I am hoping Toyota is successful here.

 

Such vague claims feed narratives. Toyota shareholders tend to be long-term investors. Their measure of leadership is quite a contrast to what we encounter routinely in forums like this.

In other words, what are the actual questions and who is asking? It looks like a cherry-picked group is pushing an expectation supported by early-adopters, neither those the majority who own stock , nor those who will be buying or selling the actual vehicles.

Remember, true leadership comes from those able to change the masses. Those who "charge" into opposition aren't necessarily leaders.

 

In Tesla's case, to be fair they only "struggled with delivery" because (making up some numbers) they said they would deliver the Model 3 in numbers that would require 20x as many batteries as Toyota used in their hybrids but could initially only supply 10x. The pre-orders were far beyond what anyone would have guessed.
Saying that that is a problem or hypocritical is just silly.
And shows how Toyota just missed the boat on what "customers" wanted.

Now you (they?) say that customers don't want BEVs? That's because they lost all those customers (me included, having owned 6 Toyotas) to Tesla.

Mike

 

It is four funds; AkademikerPension, Church of England Pensions Board, Sweden's AP7 and Norway's Storebrand. They are big enough to get Toyota to review their lobbying efforts.
Toyota to review climate stance as investors turn up the heat | Reuters

 

Source: Tesla Reveals What Cars Tesla Buyers Trade In



Bob Wilson

 

To be fair would be to acknowledge that each has challenges.

Tesla's challenges are unique. Comparisons don't make sense. It's a startup with lots of investor capital and heavy dependency of carbon credits. That puts it in a very, very different position... hence a different approach.

 

Adoption doesn't work that way. The belief of there only being one boat is an early-adopter fantasy.

 

You realize that doesn't actually tell us anything. It's the same twist, waiting for everyone else to get on the same page. Think about what is needed, not wanted.

It never ceases to amaze me how that is so hard for some to see.

 

You are 100% correct. It is more like the Titanic got hit by an ICE-berg and they missed every one of the EV life boats, waiting for the hydrogen boat to be built.

Mike

 

I couldn’t agree more!

What is needed is for the world to transition quickly to zero emission vehicles.
What is needed is for automotive companies to dramatically reduce the carbon footprint of their vehicles.
Most of all, what is needed is for governments to eliminate policies that subsidize fossil fuels & create policies that speed the adoption of zero emission vehicles.
And what is needed is for companies/organizations to stop slowing down that progress.

 

In other words, some have learned nothing from GM's rush to market with Volt followed by a refusal to adapt.

Taking the time to do it right is vital.

 

And that brings us back to this:

 

It shows that Toyota's lobbying efforts has some major stock holders worried about what their stance towards climate change really is. That Toyota's current public pro-ICE stance in the face of various government policies will mean less profits as Toyota hasn't prepared for the switch away from ICE. There is also the social responsibility element there that has others divesting their fossil fuel holdings.

This is about stocks, not cars. These funds selling off will have a negative impact on Toyota, which is why Toyota is responding to them.

GM messed up, but the Volt was ages ago now. The car markets and politics are different now. The US, with its independent dealers, isn't the growing market anymore.

 

Taking the time to do it right, is not the same as taking your time because you don't want to do it. Take a look at Ford, which is roughly one year out from releasing their best selling truck as an electric, the F-150.
Here's how Ford will set its electric F-150 apart from Tesla and GM pickups

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It would be a shame to see Tacoma sales tank - as owners obviously prefer torque, & 80 MPG-e compared to a truck - some of which get what, maybe 19 MPG around town?
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It reveals the short-sightedness of two audiences. Shareholders looking for dividend & selloff profit are quite different from shareholders investing in the long-term. Supporters seeking visibility & praise are quite different from supporters investing in the long-term. See the pattern? We have watching the market cycle 3 times now from... post 9/11... 2009 collapse... and previous administration. So any reason from being at any specific stage now is very much a short-sighted excuse.

Toyota's approach is to build & deploy technology capable of weathering business, economic, and political fluctuations. We have seen Prius so resilient to change, the system within has diversified to a wide variety of platform and now supports a plug. We have witnessed many attempt to downplay & mislead about design, claiming Toyota never had those long-term plans in mind, that there is no long-term strategy for transitioning away from ICE offerings.

Now with Toyota's BEV plans becoming much more difficult to deny, those with the short-term mindset are struggling to remain relevant. They are becoming aware of the elements of long-term survival that were neglected in their quest for a quick victory. In other words, they sacrificed winning the war for the sake of declaring a successful battle.

Put another way, it doesn't show that.

 

How is that relevant to this discussion? We have known for years the speed at which Toyota would be delivering BEV models. It wasn't that far off of a schedule GM has been touting. Remember all the who-ha about Bolt not even being profitable until late 2021 or did you conveniently forget about the "halo" effect GM has been exploiting in the meantime? They played that same game with both Volt and Two-Mode. Toyota doesn't do that. They quietly develop & refine, then rollout in a subtle manner. Prime models have operated with remarkable efficiency & reliability... without any praise. Instead, there is ridicule for not pushing something for to capture the spotlight.

Toyota now has all the hardware components in place for a profitable rollout to the masses, while at the same time continuing to push battery chemistry. Think about the consequences of locking into outdated cell production. We clearly see how Tesla recognizes the benefit of improvement, hence their struggle with the tabbed approach. They feel it is worth it and tells the world as such. Toyota doesn't promote that way. Information & Intent is always scarce. They simply ignore the rhetoric.

In other words, what gets said here (online forums) and claims from propaganda (misleading reports) are undermining efforts that don't survive the test of time. Doing it right is what matters, regardless of antagonist spin.

 

it looks like someone has either SERIOUSLY ignored or purposefully forgotten- Toyota's disingenuous advertising;
Norway tells Toyota to stop calling hybrid cars "self-charging" — Quartz

Toyota ads show that in THEIR thinking, all they have to do is call HEV's, 'electric' (electrics you don't have to charge - HA!), or hydrogen cars 'electric' ... or PHEV's, electric. They simply say, "see? ... We are releasing 30 - 50 - 70 electric models during the next 10 years!" BUT - 'electric' to Toyota is NOT necessarily a battery electric car. Read more closely. Toyota doesn't say battery electric cars. They say 'Electrics'. That kind of long-term future plan is called deflection. It's a deflection that you yourself have dammed other car companies for saying they will do stuff in the future. toyota 'electric' may not even plug in. yes - China is forcing battery electrics out of Toyota, but isn't that a shame? A major customer wants something? And they have to be forced to do it? Or they won't allow any sales in their country? ie - getting dragged, Kicking and Screaming, into the future.

why throw up a red herring like this, when all manufacturers do that. Remember? Toyota for so many years getting to take advantage of the Prius halo effect? Why begrudge any company for doing the right thing, and getting a collateral benefit, did any of us prius fans here do that against the Prius?
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I'm not quite sure what you are even thinking about here. The prius phv was released in 2012 the volt in december 2010. GM was cash strapped going through bankruptcy at the end of development and needed to get it out. That is all ancient history. GM improved then cancelled the volt to concentrate on bevs. Last year GM, its subsidieries, and joint ventures sold or leased about 4x as many plug-ins as toyota did phevs and fuel cells and the anemic bev sales put together. I am still waiting for toyota to get it right 9 years after the prius phv (basically the first prius prime). The rav4 prime was a step in the right direction but they underinvested in batteries. Toyota has spent a lot more time lobbying for the new mirai and continued hydrogen subsidies and against plug-ins. Shareholders do not think this helps corporate values. In fact gm has underperformed the market since the first prius phevs came out but it has vastly outperformed toyota's stock performance. Why are you still focused on 2012, gm is not a leader in today look at Tesla, VW, BMW, nio, byd. Tesla that walks the talk now has a market cap greater than toyota. I don't think lobbying against toyota's values is helping the stock price.

I really could not disagree more. Toyota's lobbying against plug-ins has been short sighted hoping to continue selling gasoline only cars. Not investing more in plug-in technology has been short sighted. It is not too late. They can adapt and realize no one is fooled anymore that fuel cell light vehicles are going to be more desirable to either drivers or the environment than bevs and phevs. They can listen to the shareholders and produce the better environmental cars and quit spending money advertising and lobbying against them.

I really think toyota can turn this around in the next 3 years. They need to stop being short sighted and looking only at the next quarter.