Catalytic Convertor Stolen Even with Cat Shield

I forgot to mention that the Progressive has some sort of app or device that would help lower the cost. I'm not sure how that works or if it helps that much. If I get the device it says only the Prius is elegible and it can't be used in the Avalon.

 

I was the original poster on reddit. I finally got word from the insurance yesterday that they are deeming the car to be a total loss. I can either take $3,150 and they keep the car, take $2,100 and I keep the car as salvage or drop the claim and pay the $2,200 for the replacement cat out of pocket. The car has about 110,00 miles on it with a relatively new traction battery. I am torn.

 

That's terrible! And it makes me hate being right! What year was that again?

 

It is a 2002. I had my fingers crossed that my insurance (Metromile) would cover this theft since they covered the first two last year and I had gotten the theft deterrent plate installed like they suggested. I recall that it was right on the cusp though, so it isn't surprising that another year of depreciation pushed it into total loss territory.

I am leaning towards dropping the claim and paying for the repairs out of pocket. Getting a rebuilt title after repairs, then finding a new insurance (Metromile does not cover rebuilt titles) and no longer having comprehensive isn't ideal in a city where broken windows are common.

 

It seems they make it so you just can't win. But...

Normally what is suggested is look for similar cars to yours and their prices. If other 2002 Prii in similar conditions go for more than what the insurance offered, you can tell your insurance that they need to change the price since you can't get a car like yours for that money. If they refuse you could threaten them with a lawyer.

A quick search on Autotrader for San Francisco (100 mile radius from Zip Code 94114) and I see four 2002 or newer 1st gen Prii for sale. There's a 2002 for $4,499. That's a bit more than $3,150. But there's a 2003 for cheaper at $3,800. Although the CarFax report says it has damage and may be a salvage title, which doesn't sound like your car before the incident. The other 2002 doesn't have a price listed and the other 2003 is only $5,899. How on earth are you supposed to afford a $5,899 vehicle with a measly $3,150!? And that's assuming it's in similar condition to yours. If you've done recent work to the car you could use that too as proof your car is worth way more than what they're offering.

So you could try to push them for more money or a repair, and who knows. Maybe you can get them to help you, which is why you've been paying them money isn't it? It's not your fault your car had it's cat amputated. Them taking your payments and now threating to take your car is robbery all over. It would be better to have a judge decide how much your car was worth and not just go by what the insurance says.

That is, if you can. If you do pursue this and win it could start a chain reaction that could help other car owners. But on the other hand I know what it's like to have a great 'ol car that's priceless to the owner but worthless to everyone else. Maybe the car has some sentimental value to you. Maybe you've kept the car in tip top shape and have done lots of important maintenance and repair work that you highly doubt will have been done beforehand on any replacement car. You know that you could lose the car anyway and that even if they give you $5,899 for your car that the $5,899 2003 Prius probably isn't in the same shape or has the same features, or for whatever other reason, just isn't your car.

So whatever you choose I understand. It's sad and hard any way you go.

 

In the picture they have simply bolted it down with security torx for which just about every bit set has a driver for.
Using standard fasteners or even any removable fastener at all will only delay it by a couple of seconds.

Edit: I just saw that they use a non standard fastener but since they feature it in the picture the thieves will probably have the right bit for it...

 

Dude, you have my deepest sympathies on your situation. I know how you feel all to well. I had a car totaled outside my house, my 2001 ENE (Ever Nimble Echo), it was certainly "not very fancy" but I loved it's simplicity.

I think that we do need some sort of legislation to set aside funds from the CARB (California Air Resources Board) to help drivers of these older, but still very low polluting, cars not have their vehicles totaled just because of this sort of theft. It defeats the intent of the regulations CARB put in place.

And it is tough shopping for cars in LA and SF.

Again you have my deepest sympathies.

If you get back on this horse, stainless steel rivets are the way to go I think.

Pinback

 

I feel like our current way of doing things has become detached from natural consequences. Wrongdoers get either thrown in jail, which has nothing to do with the wrongdoing, or get fined, which most fines could be pocket change for one person yet be another person's entire food allowance for the month (like when I got my only speeding ticket, it was $165, I had just lost my job due to the business downsizing, booted from my apartment and that was about all the money I had for the month).

I wonder if there's anyway to make the cat theives, and if not them, the police force/government, pay for the costs that the innocent owners lost.

For an example, have caught cat theives pay for new catalytic converters and have them, under strict supervision, help install them back into the vehicles they took them off of.

If the government/police don't find the theives have them fix the thefts. Then we wouldn't even need insurance except for liability. We could just pay an extra tax so the government would have the incentive to get the theives.

Of course that's all just a long shot theory.

 

I doubt you'll get enough funds from these thieves to pay for even one repair. I expect that some of the money goes "up the chain" and the rest of the money goes "hand to addiction" as opposed to "hand to mouth."

I think we should be getting CARB involved in helping to cover the cost of repairs for people who have these older vehicles (gen1-3 Prius for example) so that lower income people can keep their low polluting vehicles on the road rather than switching to what ever sub $4K clunker they can find in the tight car markets of metro areas in CARB states.
I think there should be some sort of sliding scale based on income associated with that aid.

Another option would be to have CARB incentivize the insurance companies to repair these vehicles rather than calling them a total loss.
This would encourage the owners to maintain comprehensive insurance on their vehicles which would partly solve the problem while helping the insurance industry deal with the losses while we, the breathing public keep cleaner air vehicles on the road. My guess is that if this was done you would see comprehensive insurance on gen 1+2 Prius cars jump in price but hopefully not too much.

These are only suggestions. In either case, the goal is to keep otherwise well running low polluting vehicles on the road.

I understand that many people feel that this sort of government meddling is usually more of a problem than the original problem. But those same people also seem to think that law enforcement should be used to solve this problem to which I would point out that 1) law enforcement is part of government and 2) I don't think that law enforcement alone can solve this problem though I support their efforts and would try to give them more resources in this area.

There is a glaring question that still rings out to me on this whole catalytic converter theft topic: Why are there no third party cats for the Gen 1+2 Prius cars that have gotten an EO number? (EO = Executive Order, which means they can be used in place of the OEM units)
Is this a financial decision made by the auto equipment makers based on their perception of the market place?
Is there an agreement that no EO numbers would be issued for these sorts of vehicles to protect the manufacturer's profits/"investment in development"?
What's going on here I wonder?

Pinback

*** “I trust the numbers. While only SOME numbers are irrational, ALL people are irrational.” John Milligan

 

The thing about criminals is that first they steal from us then they get sent to jail or prison where we pay for their room and board out of our taxes. And when fined the fine goes to the government to be distributed among other people and things and not directly to the ones affected.

If they don't have enough money make them work for it. If they can be made to do something that translates into $10 an hour, and it takes $3,000 to fix the car, then have them work 300 hours per car they damaged. If they see the money they are making is going to the victims it'll make a bigger impression that they're responsible for the hurt that they cause.

This is like raising children. Some children have a hard time learning because their parents use forms of discipline that have nothing to do with the action. Instead of sending the child to her room when she makes a mess or hurts another person, have her clean up the mess or make an "I'm sorry card" and maybe even pick out a toy she owns as a form of compensation to the one she hurt.

The whole "car being totaled" thing needs to be better addressed. I wouldn't mind my car being "totaled" if the money were enough to buy a car that's clearly in the same or better condition than mine. This is why we can and should fight the insurance companies now. If they say, "here's $3,000, go find another car" my reply would be "I can't find a car like mine in the same condition for that price. My car has a new battery, was serviced like this and that, and here are the receipts to prove it. Here's a list of cars in my area that are the same year, make and model, and are close to my car's condition and this is what they cost. Or are needing this amount of work to be in a similar condition and here's the quotes from a local mechanic for the work."

 

Saw a youtube video 4 part series of putting on Cat Security Shield and the installer noted a significant gap still leaving the CC vunerable and there was some question if those extra shields dealt with that.

The Miller Cat Shield has a lip covering that gap it appears from all the photos I viewed. I'm trying to get a the exact dimensions for all of the shields. In the mean time I added Comprehensive $100 deductible to liability for just $6 extra a month (2004 200K Prius)

 

there. Sorry re theft despite shield,What kind of security shield was it? I am considering Miller (the kind Toyota dealers install) am told they're aluminum. Was there any problem with noise when you had the shield? Did you have a tilt alarm as well and have you investigated that? It seems to me that both a shield and alarm would be helpful but I'm a newbie at all this.

 

I think you've called it, right there. Those manufacturers simply weren't/aren't agile enough to respond to a demand spike.



You can look at that a few ways: that's the value of one of the metals harvested from stolen catalytic converters. It's also still needed as raw material input to making the aftermarket replacement converters, so valuation changes here have a compound effect.

Also consider the age of the application: we are mostly talking about cars that are 11-21 years since manufacture. In my experience you really only see aftermarket parts support carried out to that age for vehicles that sold phenomenally well. So I'd expect the old F-150 and the old Civic to be covered with exempted parts, but maybe not the then-new kid Prius.

 

Finally an update! I got a call from my insurance today. They have agreed to cover the costs of repair. I will be paying about $300 (my deductible) and the insurance will pay about $2,000.

The insurance deemed the car a total loss up until this morning but I kept insisting that they were undervaluing the car and overvaluing the damage and I kept threatening to drop the claim if they did not cover the damages. Dropping the claim really seemed to rattle them, but financially it made sense. I am just not going to find a car as dependable as this for $2,300. My next step would have been file a complaint with the California Department of Insurance. After two weeks and several calls and emails, I think they got the picture that I wasn't going to budge.

Overall, I think this is a good resolution. I will pay for indoor parking going forward and get another shield installed. Hopefully the third time is a charm and there won't be a fourth. My goal is to get another 5-10 years out of this car. I just hope that my garage can get the parts in soon.

 

Awsome! Great news!

Hopefully that indoor parking will work better. Have you thought of installing any other theft deturants?

 

Will place this here :

 

I just read this thread with interest, as our cat was stolen off our 2001 Prius in December. I ordered a replacement cat Dec 23 and it arrived Mar 29 - more than 90 days. I ordered it from a Toyota dealer about 100 mikes away for $900 instead of $1600 in the SF/Oakland area. When I got it home, I found it was missing the vacuum actuator, which is also now in short supply. I didn’t want to wait another 90 days, so I found a used one on eBay, and got it all installed and back on the road ... four months after the cat was stolen.

USAA insurance covered the loss under our comprehensive plan, but we had to accept it as a total loss.

I have a mechanic who offered to weld on stainless steel braided cables to the cat - it’s supposed to mess up the reciprocating saws the thieves use.

2001/265k miles/worn interior/old traction battery with a few bad modules, so I was ok with the $1500 insurance gave us.