Background: 2004 Pri with 197k miles, original owner Since new, the steering wheel never lined up straight; it has always pointed about 10deg right-of-center when driving straight. This never bothered me, as the car always drove well (straight, no pulling, etc), so I never had the dealer look into it. I assumed the issue was one of the column shafts being "off" by one spline. Even after several sets of tires/alignments, and all these years, this offset remained constant. Yesterday: Got a new set of tires with alignment. I made the mistake(?) of telling the mechanic Not to worry about the steering wheel being off center. He just nodded that he understood, there was no real conversation (as we were some distance apart, noise, Covid, etc). Afterward, everything drives fine: no vibration or pulling etc. However, the steering wheel is now centered (when going straight). At a stop, I cranked the wheel fully left/right, and I get almost 1-3/4 turns in one direction and 1-1/2 in the other (i forget which direction was which). It would seem(?), the mechanic compensated for the previous steering column offset (assuming that was the issuse) by making adjustment at the tie-rods. . . . I think. While I'm grateful for the "fix", the good alignment, good balancing, and the extra effort - will this create any unintended issues? Like an incorrect steering angle that might confuse the stability control? Or is the rack itself not being centered(?) an issue. Or any other problem? I don't care about the slight difference in turning radius. And I'm not anxious to return to the tire shop as there was little-to-no use of masks, and I am definitely in an elevated-risk category. Thanks for any thoughts on the topic.
Do you have VSC? If not then I wouldn't worry much about it. If you do have VSC then the steering angle "zero point" would have to be reinitialized (if that wasn't performed already then I'd expect a warning light with a code). It does sound like the steering rack isn't centered. Normally a rack (or gearbox) is designed to be a little "tight" at center to reduce any wander when driving straight. If your car drives ok, then again I wouldn't be concerned. (but personally I am OCD enough that I would have reindexed the steering wheel or shaft years ago). Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
You should probably take a look at T-SB-0063-20, around page 18 and following. On the last page, it states a limit for correction via tie rod adjustment: the threaded portions showing on the left and right rod should not be more than 1.5 mm different. That shouldn't be too hard to measure. If that condition is satisfied, then it looks like they got it right. On the other hand, if there is more than a 1.5 mm difference at the rods, they probably need to do over with the steering wheel removed and put back on the column one spline over (or more than one ...), so as to end up with the wheel centered and the tie rod threaded lengths within 1.5 mm of each other.
They moved the tie rod adjusters too far. How do I know that? Because those adjustments are the ONLY way you can get the actual steering mechanism displaced to one side during an alignment. This means that while driving straight, the steering rack is actually off-set to one side, although the tires and steering wheel are straight. Others are correct, not terrible in a vehicle w/o VSC but not good at all with it.
I'm more or less in agreement with JohnG, but still suggest that the actual measurement of tie rod length difference per the TSB will probably be the best way to (a) convince the shop there is an issue, and (b) confirm when it's fixed.
Thanks all. Yes, it must have VSC, as it was a loaded model (not that I remember). No warning lights yets, maybe because it wasn't driven much. Took a look at the tie-rods, and yes, big difference side-to-side - 3/16" (passenger) vs 1/2" (driver). No need to worry about a precise measurement. So tomorrow I'll take it back to the tire shop. Will ask them to redo the alignment, starting with the rack in it's centered (neutral?) position (not based on steering wheel position). I guess they'd disconnect the rod ends, then turn the wheel till they get equal tie-rod lengths on each side? I'll worry about the steering wheel offset later, don't want to muddy-the-waters. Thanks again.
If it had the intermediate steering link recall, it is possible the steering angle sensor has been "off" for quite a while. Those with VSC often require SAS (steering angle sensor) recalibration when large adjustments are made, which indy shops may not be able to perform.
What I noticed with a Gen 2 I had briefly was that it seemed pretty normal for Techstream to show an obviously bogus steering-angle value (like 1150° or something), any time the car had just been turned on without driving. Then the value would turn non-bogus when actually driving. It seemed that there wasn't a separate steering-angle calibration, but that the skid ECU simply figured out where zero was on each drive, by watching also the yaw sensor, and noting what the steering angle read when the car was moving forward with no yaw. There is, however, a yaw sensor calibration. Something ultimately needs to be pegged to reality.
Just picked up the car from the tire shop. They simply repeated the same process: start with steering wheel in the middle, and compensate with the tie-rods. (maybe it's comes just from trying to explain this to a different person each time). They even managed to make the "wandering" worse, so it's now obvious at slower speeds. They see nothing wrong with compensating for a steering column issue with the tie-rod adjustments, and feel there's nothing unusual about having a large L/R difference in the exposed tie-rod threads. No point in any further discussion with them - Toyota it will have to be. Thanks . . . . for listening
Did you have the TSB printed out with you, to show the 1.5 mm limit? BSing will always prevail if you come unprepared. Sometimes it prevails anyway, but if you're not prepared it's no contest.
No I didn't take it, but I seriously doubt it would have made any difference. After all they felt it was common to have a large difference L/R. "As long as it's driving well enough, what difference do those measurements make?" (that's not an actual quote, but it surely is the way they saw it). When I said they were not starting with the rack in a neutral position, they said "we're not touching the rack, why do that?". In fact any time I mentioned that the rack needed to start in a neutral/zero/centered position, they insisted "we're not touching, or moving the rack, we only adjust the tie-rods". And my saying that the Toyota spec limit was barely more that a mm L/R, they looked at me like I was insane. "Having a completely different turning radius L vs R, is also "normal"", his pickup is that way. I'm not a "people person", but I can tell when actual communication is just not happening.
That wasn't just communication not happening, it was classic BSing. Sometimes even if you show them the official Toyota document requiring no more than 1.5 mm difference, right there in print, a real black-belt BSer will continue BSing anyway. But if you don't have the evidence to show them, they all will.
Yes, I'm sure that's correct. Though, in this case, I got the distinct impression they really believed what they were saying. In any case, 17yrs of doing my own maintenance, it won't kill me to give the toyota maintenance dept some business. At least that's how I'll choose to let my brain rationalize things, else i'll just stew about it.
Just be sure to really explain what you want done- that they should reindex the steering shaft or whatever to straighten everything out properly. Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
It sounds like they "do it like they have always done it" because it's always worked before, and no one's gonna tell them any different, 'specially not some guy walkin' in offa da street. Oh well. You tried. Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
