As someone who designs digital systems for rugged environments, I can say that Flash is one the most commonly underdesigned parts of these systems. Commercial eMMC under heavy read/write load and especially when hot, can expect to have failures after a few years. Fortunately, if you look around, you can find devices designed especially for such an environment which will last decades, though the costs are a lot higher. This is all armchair quarterbacking--I don't really know what happened. But I wouldn't be surprised if the first design of a startup company had under-spec'd flash devices in them. I'm sure they learned their lesson, and I'm glad they are finally agreeing to fix their mistake.
Yup definitely. I spent 3 years of my life automotively qualifying non volatile memory inside power controllers. Ironically, some ended up in Teslas. This was in the silicon design side, running 125C ambient oven temps with 24/7 write and erase cycles and then measuring the quantization energy. Automotive, we never used flashed for critical systems. EEPROM was OK though. But this stored the configuration to boot up and configure the IC that controlled the power buck converters that controlled the real "computers" down stream before it was controlled live over the PMBus. And it was designed in a way that with an EEPROM failure that could not be auto-corrected, would flag an error and the chip would power up with resistor configs so that the MCU could at least boot. All sorts of engineering meetings over failure analysis and how to handle it. All solutions were a trade-off. If you do this, you could blow this up. If you don't do this, you could blow this other thing up. Welcome to the life of engineers lol.
Toaster can you please provide evidence or data of where you're brain work has ended up in teslas, I am genuinely curious of this statement. Matt Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
Without searching... There are the stalling gen3 Prii, that a California dealer still feels are unsafe, even after a couple of fixes. Though that case is in court now. With the oil sludging engines, Toyota insisted it was because of lack of maintenance until they were forced to address the actual design flaw. While most of the sudden acceleration cases were due to user error or the pedal getting stuck on something, Toyota's software for the brakes was a mess that didn't use best practices to reduce the risk of a system crash. They lost, or settled, at least one case involving a death with a Camry because of that evidence.
okay you goaded me into this there was the red triangle of death on the second gen MFD ... brought on by defective cold solders behind the display. and not sure if troobait's referencing this recall; Toyota recalls 752,000 Prius hybrids for loss of power But the bottom line is, it's not good to throw stones in glass houses. Maybe he feels immune to these recalls - now that he's driving a Hydrobomb car ..... All Toyota Mirais Recalled For Software Glitch Yeah, glass houses It's one thing if your company has been making cars for five, six, seven or more decades and you still keep having recalls going on ..... and try to maybe show a little bit of grace for a company that has a failed part after just 5 years ..... since - after all - they were just trying to survive during the 1st couple years - and get through the thicket of "Short stock" investors / people spreading FUD. .
It's obvious that you have a compulsion to try and bring the Mirais into the discussion and trash talk Toyota in general, but the thread is really about bad design decisions by Tesla that made it into production and the management's proclivity to first deny that it's a problem, then to say that it's not safety related and then say that it was a known component expected to wear out. Then they claim that they only expected the car to last 5 years. Hill, aren't you at least a little worried that the design decisions for your tesla are predicated on only needing to work properly for 5 years? Dan
I'm sorry ...... perhaps you didn't read the OP's own question here? Where he raised the question himself? About "where are the Toyota design defects?" Sorry but he asked what defects there are about Toyota .... did I misunderstand his question? .... or is it appropriate, when the op asks a question, regarding where are the Toyota defects, for readers to point out examples that the op likely missed. I'm sorry, perhaps you missed my post above where I pointed out many many defects including ones on the Tesla's that we got rid of? Dan, I was down at the Toyota dealership last night trying to buy a RAV4 Prime, but the dealership did a bait and switch on us. In any event we don't have Tesla's anymore. Incidentally, instead of selling us the car that we had a deposit on, the dealer try to push a RAV4 hybrid on us. Only thing is, I had already read up on them, and there seems to be a possible issue. Another new Toyota RAV4 spontaneously caught fire, this time while its owner was taking his children to school Oops, sorry, that was the wrong article. Let me look again. In any event, when a fan of hydrogen cars is also an antagonist to electric cars, they have to be able to take what they dish out. .
The Mirai is only brought up because of who started the thread. If we look back at past issues, we could likely find that Toyota and other car manufacturers have claimed there isn't an issue, blamed the customers, claim it isn't safety related, or say it is suppose to work that way. PS: I started a thread on the recall for the RAV4 issue in the General Cars area. It affects other models, and the fix might be replacing the engine.
toy settled the whole u/a case with the feds @orenji 1.2 BILLION for misleading the public toyota-settles-with-u-s-for-1-2-billion-over-recalls-feds-will-audit-company-for-three-years
@hill Hmm. I looked at every post by orenji in this thread and did not find him posing that question. I guess I just get tired of seeing the same person trying to beat the same old dead horse (Mirai) even when there is no connection to the topic of the thread. Do you really feel that I'm harshly criticizing you? LOL you ain't seen nothin' yet. You aren't likely to either. While I do correct or question inaccuracies I don't make a habit of harshly criticizing people over mistakes. Dan
I figured that was probably what you were referring to. He never said what you attributed to him. When you go so far as to add quotation marks (as in paragraph 2 of post #27) you are telling us that you are quoting him verbatim. That's frowned upon when the words are really your own. Getting back on track... It's just as reprehensible for Toyota to cover up defects. I don't know of any defects off hand that were expected to break within 6 years and were still allowed to be installed and sold. The exception are those parts that rely upon friction to do their job, like brake shoes or windshield wiper blades. Dan
Seriously - and how many Toyota’s have been built worldwide, that has established Toyota as the best of the best cars in the world. You don’t become the biggest automaker in the world by designing junk. And don’t bring up GM as being at one time the biggest back in the 70’s and 80’s there is a reason they lost that to the Japanese manufacturers. Glitch was an update not a failing iPad that controls everything. Did I hit a nerve? Oh by the way Musk announced today not to buy any Tesla during their mad rush of trying to reach quarterly goals. Something about quality goes down during this period. SMH. Never proven, no mechanical/electrical fault was found by any third party investigation of Toyota models What did Toyota not stand behind - reread the statement and question.
He did ask bisco to provide a list of Toyota design defects. Hill's phrasing of that post doesn't change that fact. I didn't bring up GM, but you wanted examples of Toyota's defects and mishandling of them. Now provided, you deflect with how big Toyota is. That it somehow absolves them of any wrongs they may have committed. Drive train shutting off while on the road is just a glitch. Okay. Tesla's issue discussed here results in loss of the touchscreen, not a loss of control of the car. The fine was for breaking the law. Toyota purposely did so when it chose not to inform the NHTSA of sudden acceleration/runaway reports in other countries. The brake software was sloppy enough that it could have been involved in some cases. In the examples given, Toyota didn't stand behind the issues until public and legal pressure forced them too. Just like Tesla here.
Bisco said “, i could go down a long list of toyota problems that they refuse to stand behind” listing problems that Toyota has issued recalls on is standing behind their cars. Mirai software glitch was not a recall in the USA, It was a “Customer Satisfaction Campaign," since it was not subject to an official NHTSA recall notice.”
toyota issuing a recall on gas pedals after years of denying a problem is exactly the same as tesla issuing a recall on the screen after saying that was the design life. at least tesla admitted their strategy, while toyota pretended it didn't exost as people were dying.
So my Tesla is charging In Memphis while I’m eating breakfast at ‘Broken Egg’, salmon Benedict. Next stop Little Rock. Autopilot all the way. Bob Wilson
