Do you guys think the Prius Prime will retain its value?

My view seems different from most here. I see the Prime as intrinsically more valuable than a Gen 4, and a Gen 4 as intrinsically more valuable than almost any other car. The argument that SUVs may have high demand in several years when you go to sell, is neither here nor there, to me. It's a different market, it waxes and wanes with gas prices, but not enough to turn a used-Prius buyer into a used-SUV buyer as often as the reverse. The argument that people worry about batteries, is true, but is not a deal breaker for most people considering this car, at least for any car that was originally sold in a CARB state, and is being bought for use in a CARB state. Hence 10 years 150K battery warranty.

That you can plug the car in, isn't even that relevant, except to people who find it to be a huge plus, which has to help rather than hurt value. By the time most Prime batteries are being replaced, the hard-user/early-replacer types getting replacements under warranty, plus the pack rebuilders, will have sorted out what the deal is with the batteries.

I think the bottom limit on resale value is that the Prime can be thought of as the best and most efficient HV ever made as of 2017 model year. Better than Gen 1, 2, 3, or 4. Better than Insight, surely better than any unproven Hyundai, etc.

Sure, some people will care about 5th seat, slightly less cargo capacity than Gen 4, etc. and actually buy a used Gen 4 over a used Prime in a few years at the same price point. But plenty will take the added HV efficiency, added refinement (independent rear suspension, radar cruise, heated seats, nav, outrageously good headlights, etc even in my base Plus model) over that. And the reduced wear/tear on the ICE makes the car effectively a lower-miles car than the odometer implies, if the original owner plugged it in.

If you paid $30-35K out the door for a Prime, any resale problem will be more from your option-buying decision, than the intrinsic value of the Prime, which is not really tied to the option packages. If you think the big screen is a wonderful feature, wait until it's all scratched up and someone won't buy your car because of it, because it's needed even for things like turning on the heat and radio. That alone made the Plus the only model I considered. I guess a screen protector could mitigate that risk, if it doesn't make the screen visibility/glare problem worse. I preferred not to be the guinea pig on that one.

I paid $22,682 plus actual state tax/reg/title, before subtracting off $1500 state rebate and the federal tax credit. The best way to minimize actual depreciation loss, is to buy well.

If the rebates and credits end in some future model year, I don't think Toyota is dropping the MSRP by $6000, nor is anyone getting out the door for $16,682 then. And if anyone wants to just pocket their $6K of credits as a windfall, not subtract that from their effective cost basis sunk into the car, and then expect a used-car buyer to pay them that $6000 again, versus buying a used Gen 4 or a different new car, or some new-tech car with future government incentives, they are dreaming.

When buying a used car, I indeed greatly prefer a loaded car, but only because it's usually only $1K more than a stripped car. So my 2005 bought used has the top package, and my Prime has the bottom package. I generally don't buy the bottom package of anything, but this car has more tech in its base model than any top-end package of any other car I've bought. Plus, I didn't want to be so touch-screen dependent, I wanted audio and HVAC knobs/buttons, I like the full-sized vents, etc. Sorry, but I think the Plus is the better car for me, even if you don't consider price. Maybe I'll upgrade the speakers or something if I find these lacking, there is certainly enough saved money to do so if I wish.

 

If most buyers are managing such deals, and they are still going on around the time you decide to sell, potential buyers will be comparing what you are asking for against those low prices for new. You'll opt for the fully loaded used car because it is a little more than the base model used. Why not then opt to pay another little bit more to get a brand new car?

That is the impact of the government incentives has on the value of plug ins. They have brought the Prime down to an effective price equal to the gen4. It will be years before Toyota uses up their allotment of the federal tax credit. So people getting a Prime are likely going to see their car be valued at about the same amount as the gen4 of the same year when they go to sell.

 

the big thing is the battery, not incentives. do ev's depreciate more from their effective net selling price than their gasser counterparts. i say yes.

 

I agree. And some of the people will prefer one or the other, while others might cross-shop the two. I'm fine with that. Personally, I'm hoping to have this car for 10-15 years. So I'm expecting this to be my last new car purchase with a gas engine.....or my last driver-required car...or both. I'll likely be either running it nearly into the ground; or handing it down within the family; or with good luck regarding the car and bad luck regarding not living forever, handing it down to my heirs.

I agree again. If I were a used-car buyer in those circumstances, I'd pay "a little bit more" to buy new. Or a bit more than that. But realistically, paying 2x or 3x or 4x as much for new, isn't a little bit. And after 100k miles (in my case, 5 years) , few cars get 50% of the then-current new price, and after 150k (therefore out of CARB warranty) even 33% is a lot to pay. You are right that the cost basis I use should be my true cost after the incentives.....or the equivalent cost if I were in the position of the used-car buyer looking at new cars in the future. Not my cost before the rebates/credits.

While it's hard for some people to look at a $28K MSRP car they paid $22.7K to 26K for as having an effective fair-market typical cost basis of $18K if future incentives match current incentives, it's easy for me to bite that reality bullet. So, even using that average rather than my own bargain purchase, selling it for $9000 with 100k means driving it 100k miles with only $0.09/mile needed to cover the simple purchase price minus simple used selling price. Huge bargain. Combine that with the low fuel and maintenance costs, and you can see why Prius (and Prime) owners smile a lot. Especially if their work reimburses them at IRS standard rates for miles driven on business. I know people whose car payments are more than covered by mileage reimbursement. Free car, essentially.

Those same sorts of people will always be a significant part of the market for used cars with extreme efficiency.

If I'm going to pay half the price of a car for half the life of a car, I want it to be the new half, no matter how nice the condition of the used car! As do most people, with some exceptions (such as those who obsess over insurance cost, or those who don't want an ex or creditor taking it away, etc.)

 

By the time I'm ready to buy another plug in
the current cars will likely be obsolete something newer, faster, stronger and better will be in the market
the tax structure will be more punitive and upgrades and mods will likely be more available for cars I already own.

For me I likely won't buy another new car for a long while unless the stars align again.

 

Yeah, sure 99 cents on the dollar!! Na, Bisco (hey got to do it again!), you're right; at the rate they are discounting Primes, if they keep it up for any time, you'll be lucky to get $5,000 for a 4 year-old Prime. There are so many variables though, including better features offered on new models, say 15Kwh batteries, DC charging, and MORE POWER!! I'll be eagerly clutching my deposit check to use on the new SuperLeggera HP Prime Coupé. I just hope I live long enough to see, and still be able to drive those exciting cars.

 

We had similar discussions in the Apple community when a new model was coming out. But I agree with those who pointed out, don’t let perfect become the enemy of good enough.

“Love the one you’re with” Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young

Bob Wilson

 

love my 2012 pip, you should see the size of my hatch.

 

I just did a quick KBB pricing of a 2013 prius plug-in Advanced and a 2013 Prius hatchback Five.
The plug-in came in at about $13K, the hatchback came in at just under $12K.

My resale value had I purchased a Prius in 2013 would be about the same whether or not I purchased the plug-in or the standard hybrid.
AND, it doesn't make sense to be comparing someone who is in the market for a $12K used car to someone who might consider a $24K-$30K new car. These are different buyers.

Now the MSRP of the 2013 plug-in was several thousand dollars higher than the Prius Five but after rebates and incentive, it looks like most people back then were not paying significantly more out the door...BUT, what they originally paid isn't the issue, it's what the car is worth four or five years later compared to other cars (new or used).

I'm waiting for when gas gets back to $4 or more per gallon and wondering how much value people will place on a car that only needs to be filled a couple of times a year.

 

Size matters!!?? You should see the size of my monthly gasoline bill!! 15,000 miles per year, $10/month and that is in California with our high gasoline prices. Woe is me, when gas prices go up, why, I might have to pay, $12/month??!! Oh no, tell me it isn't true!!
BTW, I used to average $90-$120/month!! Did I mention that I Love my Prime Advanced!!?? Electric bill is up a whopping, $11/month, over last year!


.

 

Seeing as a year or two from then, is now a year or two ago, I'm just wondering how many pennies on the dollar bisco paid for a used 2017 Prime a year or two ago, compared to my buying it new for under $17K after state rebate and federal tax credit.

I'm thinking I did OK. The car has 82K miles in 39 months, and hasn't needed maintenance by anyone but me yet. Last I checked, I'd get more than pennies on the dollar for it, and don't think I'd have to get too lucky to get more than $5000 for it next year when it turns 4 years old, either. Just busting you guys for not having a crystal ball, nobody could have predicted 2020. But I'm surprised at the lack of faith just 3 years ago in the intrinsic value of Prius and Prius Prime even by some folks who love them. I truly believe these are overall, the best cars ever made. They will be worth pennies on the dollar only after turning to rust.

Sadly, part of the market demand for any used Prius as 2020 is coming to a close, is from people looking for a more practical car to live in. Another part of it is from people wanting to avoid airplanes, yet needing to travel great distances. The intrinsic value of these cars, derives from how well they are built, and the wide range of things they can do extremely well. They can get you anywhere you need to be, reliably and incredibly cheaply. Provide shelter if needed. Provide heat, AC, and electricity more efficiently than any other vehicle, in any sort of emergency. Rarely if ever leave you broken down. Etc.

I hope that many folks here keep their eyes open for Prius newbies in need of advice, help, or even an underused Prius, for reasons we're not used to seeing here. I'm guessing my spare Prius (2005) will find a good new home next year.

 

+1!
The local hybrid specialist where I bought all six of our Prii just got in a '17 Advanced with 35,800 miles. Price is $19,995. According to the VIN, it's from New York, so I'd expect some corrosion. Granted, yours has a lot more miles and fewer bells and whistles, but you should be able to get way over $7k for yours even with normal rust.

 

I sold my 2017 PP Premium (MSRP ~$30K but paid ~$19K after all incentives and tax credit) on my trade-in deal to get a new 2020 PP LE. I got $17100 on 2.5 years old with 40K miles and cracked grille but otherwise still in very good condition. I now have initiated a trade-in deal negotiation of my PP LE (MSRP~$29K), which is 10 months old with 3K miles on it. I paid ~$22.5K for it, but I expect to receive a full $4500 tax credit when I file my income tax early next year making the final total price paid to $18K. I have an offer from one dealer (confirmed appraisal) for $22K. Yap, that means I can profit $4000 by selling 10 months old PP LE.

 

I'm not sure whether the federal tax rules require returning the credit if you don't keep the car a certain amount of time. I know the Massachusetts $1500 rebate required keeping the car for at least 2 years. If the credit could be grabbed and the car then flipped, If it were legal, I think every dealer (or their employees or friends acting as "straw man" in the transaction) at every dealership would be doing exactly what you're proposing doing,,and no new Primes would be available for sale from dealers.

Any tax accountants here? Or does anyone feel like Googling it? (I don't, but wouldn't want a good Prius Chat acquaintance to get into tax trouble if it's not allowed, or simply be losing $500 versus making $4000 with an unnecessary transaction.)

 

I have to search the thread on this topic, but my recollection is that there is no such restriction. There are many posters here that have purchased and traded in PP year after year, some for profit. But your concern is a legitimate one. I will look into this and make sure it is legal before I pull the trigger. Thank you.

Edit: OK I found the thread. I was correct. Buying a car and using it for a while and selling it is not a problem. There is no specified period IRS requires to keep the car and use it before selling it.
Federal $4502 tax credit - what is consider resale? | PriusChat

 

Does anyone think that Biden's plan to build out 500,000 charging stations may improve the resale value of the PP as a kind of 'transition' vehicle for buyers who may wish to move to a bev but are a bit uncertain? Grasping at straws here...

 

No, I don't think so. Increased availability of charge stations will not make much difference for PP's limitation on the EV range and slow charge time. Also, most public charge stations, unless it is offered free by the operator, the cost is usually higher than pumping gas for PP.

 

Wait a sec; did I miss something? @bisco ?

 

No, you did not miss anything. @biso is still driving Pip. There are no "pennies on the dollar PPs" on used car lots.

 

I could have almost made a profit when I traded in my 2020 Prius Prime XLE Classic Silver Metallic for my 2021 Prius Prime Limited Blue Magnetism (between the actual cost of the former and the trade-in offer). I ended up about $1,000 down, which is still good for having owned my car for more than a year, but I could have easily made a profit if I asked for a little higher price for my trade-in, which I did through an online app of the dealer. They accepted my asking price immediately as my car was in exceptionally good condition.

Technically California prorates the EV rebate but the federal government doesn't prorate the EV tax credit.