1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Battery Maintenance - Revive your Dead or Dying 12v Aux Battery

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by DG Bear, Mar 16, 2015.

  1. Easy Rider 2

    Easy Rider 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    1,584
    257
    0
    Location:
    Ocala, FL
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    Why is that exactly ?
    Maybe you need to take a deep breath and reconsider your next moves.

    Is this car REALLY worth fixing ?
    Did the insurance company screw you over ??
    Maybe you would be better off trading the wreck in on a low mileage used and making the modest payments that should result.

    The 14 volts you read IS the aux. low voltage battery charging voltage and that's good. The propulsion battery is something like 300 volts.

    So chances are good that your ONLY real 12 V problem is the battery itself.......probably.

    I don't think you need any professional diagnosis of the 12 V problem; just getting the new battery fully charged and installed.

    But, once again, I strongly encourage you to consider getting a different car, probably a small non-hybrid in your present situation.

    Even if you end up getiing this one "fixed", if you don't pay a professional to do EVERYTHING that it needs, it likely will just be one frustrating problem after another as long as you keep it.
     
    #41 Easy Rider 2, Apr 20, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2015
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,666
    39,220
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Consider getting a digital multimeter. For stop-gap, you can get one under $10. Or for better build and quality, around $50. And read up a bit on batteries. It'll free you up, from complete reliance on mechanics.
     
  3. CalgarySimon

    CalgarySimon Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2016
    2
    3
    0
    Location:
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Technology
    I'd like to thank DG Bear for his smart experiment & advice. Followed the instruction on my 2010 Prius and the car is starting fine now. Will try updating later on how long it lasts.
     
    Fostel, Danny3xd and bisco like this.
  4. Sierra Mark

    Sierra Mark Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    30
    8
    0
    Location:
    Mission Viejo, CA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Have you considered the health risk of unsealing a sealed battery that is in the CAR CABIN with you? Despite the battery vent tube, gases can still escape.
    Sulfuric acid is extremely irritating to skin, mucous membranes and to the upper airway and to the lungs. If you inhaled either droplets or particulates with droplets attached, you could experience symptoms such as difficulty breathing, coughing, sore throat.
    I think I'll be buying a new battery rather than trying to fix the old one next time my battery goes bad.
     
    #44 Sierra Mark, May 8, 2016
    Last edited: May 9, 2016
  5. DG Bear

    DG Bear Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2014
    85
    24
    0
    Location:
    plano, tx
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    I appreciate your concern but I think your assumptions are unfounded. I also believe your comments about unhealthy air, exposure to unsafe chemicals etc. can be applied to an untold number of everyday situations including most home and car repairs (and even everyday laundry, meal prep and cooking adventures).

    Smart people and great companies rebuild batteries every day... this is neither an overly deadly task nor a new concept.

    No one with any credibility has stated that this operation causes any more or less gases in the car cabin. If this is your hot button you should be more concerned about the many posts from users that have replaced their batteries with lower cost non sealed batteries and use them in their daily drivers.

    Maintenance and hands on troubleshooting is not for everyone. But if you take the time to do maintenance on your car you often find issues that are problem areas that can be addressed and even corrected with simple measures. I'm not convinced you are better off ignoring the battery and hoping it is safer hidden in the back without verification.

    "IF" there was a sealing problem with the battery maintenance I performed... the battery would have leaked, depleted the coverage and the battery would have long since failed. Because it has not failed (or needed additional water in almost 2 years)... that alone should tell all you all you need to know about your venting concerns.

    From my view the battery is venting in the same method that it did from the factory. I may be mistaken on this but I think if you actually look at the dynamics of what I did in removing and replacing the sealing caps and adding water to the battery you may be surprised to find that the health risks are unchanged.

    The top clear cover is not the main vent path. Each cell has individual seal caps. I simply removed the rubber caps added water and replaced the caps. I believe the caps and the untouched escape vent is working like before and I believe the venting is largely unchanged. I know the smell of a leaking battery and that's simply not an issue.

    It’s also coming up on the 2nd year of extended life (without any additional work or checks on my part). Is that better that the battery being in the land fills? I think so... Some will argue that after 3-4 years you should blindly toss them whether there's and issue or not. Others have proudly let them do their thing and they have lasted 7+ years and counting... either way that's fine with me... I'm ok with that. The post was my 2nd and I was simply sharing my experience to a problem I faced on the road (on vacation with limited options). I've been more that amazed at the contrasting opinions (as batteries seem to be a wild and crazy subject). I can only imagine the results had I received as much attention to my other issues.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,129
    50,045
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i'm just glad the adversarial one has gone his way. makes for a more pleasant conversation.:)
     
  7. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    3,524
    981
    8
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    lack of basic knowledge and common sense is epidemic in this country.
    1. lead battery "gases" are H2 and O2.
    2. H2SO4 is not gas.
     
    Fostel and CR94 like this.
  8. DG Bear

    DG Bear Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2014
    85
    24
    0
    Location:
    plano, tx
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Thank you... I agree.

    In the end we are volunteering our time and talents with the ultimate goal to help one another.

    When we're in sync the feedback can (and should be) a thing of beautiful and blessings.


    Sometimes we all get caught up in the moment and our responses can be a bit too edgy... let me apologize in advance if I've caused unnecessary friction.

    I appreciate all the knowledge, insight and help I get from these forums and can only hope someone else gets a similar benefit from my small contributions.
     
    CR94 and bisco like this.
  9. DG Bear

    DG Bear Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2014
    85
    24
    0
    Location:
    plano, tx
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Thanks for sharing... Glad it helped!

    Did you happen to notice how low the levels were in the individual cells (before and after adding water)?
     
  10. DG Bear

    DG Bear Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2014
    85
    24
    0
    Location:
    plano, tx
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    ** Final Battery Status - The battery lasted an extra 2 years.

    At the end of this summer the battery finally started acting up again. There were times when I had to press the Start button a few times to get the car into the ready mode. I vaguely remember this issue when I originally revived the battery a little over 2 years ago. When I checked the battery voltage via the OBD2 it was clear it had issues. Later when I removed and check the battery I discovered it had a bad cell next to the negative post.

    Toward the end I was measuring as low as 10v. At this low voltage the system can barely gain "Ready" mode and thus cannot kick in the HV battery to help out the aux battery. Once you get the "Ready" mode the voltage jumps to ~14.5v as the power bus gets boosted by the Hybrid battery.

    A few times during the time when I was still on the failing battery I used a pocket sized lithium battery Car Jump Starter to boost the voltage for a few seconds to gain the "Ready" mode to get me going. Once the card started I was fine for the rest of the day.

    If you find yourself in a failing battery state and you don't have access to a jump starter you may want to note that the system puts a large load on the aux battery when you close and open the driver's door (as this triggers the brake pump to run for a couple of seconds with a large current draw up to 30a). I found that the battery would rebound and gain the ready state as long as I stopped open/closing the driver's door and waiting a few minutes. Another approach is to enter the car from the passenger side (so the driver's door does not trigger the brake pump). I used a book I happened to have in the front sear to press on the brake petal while I pressed the start button from the passenger seat.
    .
    Example "Pocker Sized" Portable Car Jump Starter:
    These little "Jump Starters" are more than enough to start a Prius and can be used as a flash light or usb charger for your cellphone.

    DBPower https://www.amazon.com/Compact-DBPOWER-8000mAh-Portable-Flashlight/dp/B013UJ2JCE/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1483078888&sr=1-3&keywords=car+jump+starter

    Anker
     
    #50 DG Bear, Dec 30, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
    Fostel and kc410 like this.
  11. qdllc

    qdllc Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    1,370
    399
    0
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    While there is always RISK involved in opening a SEALED battery, it's generally a safe thing to do. Do note there's a difference between "maintenance free sealed" and truly sealed batteries (like AGM style). The first has ports you can open and add distilled water to replace what's been lost. The latter really can't be opened without doing damage to the battery.

    No matter how well most are made, heat causes liquid to evaporate out. This not only weakens the battery's output, but it concentrates the acid strength and causes faster "erosion" of the lead plates. Ensuring proper fluid levels extends the battery's life.

    In all honestly, though, if I get 5 years from a battery and the fluid levels are correct and the battery starts showing signs of weakening, I just replace it. Too much trouble if it completely fails in a bad place. You might "save" some money by dragging it out, but it makes as much sense as waiting until your tires are completely bald before changing them. Too much risk of something going bad to justify the decision.
     
    rrg and Mendel Leisk like this.
  12. Mechanic40years

    Mechanic40years New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2017
    1
    2
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Thank you for this most helpful post.
    Nice and excellent response to the goofy comments.
    I've just filled up my 2006 Prius 12v and am charging it.
    Will check back in with results.
    Most appreciated.
    Cheers.
     
    Fostel and bisco like this.
  13. Danny3xd

    Danny3xd Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    238
    149
    0
    Location:
    CT. U.S.
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Thanks again BMan! Been looking for the chicken dance thing for my new 2 me 2010. (Is there one? Barley just figured out my 05) Only halfway threw this thread. (some thing wrong with new 10. 44 MPG)

    Just wanted to say thanks to DG and Bisco!
    and forgive the OT, all.
     
    bisco likes this.
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,129
    50,045
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i don't know, but if there is, i hope you find it!(y)
     
    Danny3xd likes this.
  15. Naurill

    Naurill Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    59
    25
    0
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    My UK Toyota Dealer (Dealership) replaced my OEM battery that failed at nearly ten years with a regular unsealed battery. (I thought I was paying for an OEM or at least an AGM replacement. With hindsight it was not a great deal. See my other threads for details). At least with the new one I will have the option of adding some deionized or distilled water to extend the life, if needed -- the charging regime for a regular lead acid battery may be a bit extreme.

    Thanks to the OP this seems like a reasonable option (if gases and vapours can be safely vented -- cars are not hazard free, but risks can be managed). [Oh, and your argument would have been a little more credible if you had said, 'cited,' not 'sited.' DG] :) Thanks for posting nonetheless.
     
    #55 Naurill, Aug 26, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,666
    39,220
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Good you sighted that. :)
     
    CR94 and Naurill like this.
  17. Fostel

    Fostel Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2018
    87
    25
    0
    Location:
    London
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    Excel
    As my battery reached 12.3V I ordered OptiMate 5 Start/Stop charger, deionized water and will give it a go.
    OptiMate 5 Start/Stop
    [​IMG]

    @DG Bear thanks for sharing. Also, a few posters above said that they will update how long they extended the battery life. I ask out of curiosity.
     
    #57 Fostel, Nov 2, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
  18. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    7,035
    2,790
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    "Revitalizing" a dead or dying 12 V battey is a MYTH.
    Regardless of what has been said earlier in this thread.
     
    Ed Beaty likes this.
  19. Fostel

    Fostel Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2018
    87
    25
    0
    Location:
    London
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    Excel
    AGM battery voltage chart.png
    Mine may be weak as it was never topped up but not dead completely. I shall see when the charger arrives.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  20. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    7,035
    2,790
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    A short term improvement often is possible just with a "plain" charger, meaning a few weeks or months.
    But that doesn't hardly qualify as a "revival".

    The charger you ordered probably is just an automatic smart charger with a fancy face.
    Just don't expect a miracle.