1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Draft old people

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by daniel, Oct 14, 2006.

  1. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I have a modest proposal to make military service more fair and help solve the social security "crisis" at the same time: Draft old people.

    During the Vietnam war we drafted teenagers. We told them they should be proud to die for their country because of all their country had done for them, even though most of the draftees were poor (the rich kids had far more options to get out of it) and so were the ones who had received less than anyone else from their country, and being teenagers, had had far less time to recieve the benefits of being Americans.

    The draft was eventually eliminated, and replaced with what is commonly known as the "poverty draft." I.e., poor kids have far fewer opportunities in life, and the military promises education, career, etc., and accepts (with open arms) kids who are poor, or minority, who for whatever reason are discriminated against and have few or no opportunities outside the military.

    We pay these kids little, expose them to danger and hard work, and ask them to risk death for a country that has so far given them little more than a uniform. We ask them to solve, by killing and by their own deaths, the problems that, by and large, their parents and grandparents have created by stupid and short-sighted foreign policy decisions.

    Why not draft old people instead?

    Old people have benefitted far more than teenagers from their country, since they have been here longer. And they are the ones more responsible for the problems that we go to war to try to solve. It makes much more sense to ask someone who has benefitted from a life of freedom to die for his country, than to ask someone to die who has yet to receive those benefits.

    A spin-off would be improvements to the health of social security:

    When you kill off teenagers in a stupid war (or even a smart one, if sch a thing existed) you deprive the nation of the wealth their labor would have created had they lived, and you deprive the government coffers of the taxes they would have paid. You also create widows and orphans who then must be supported at government expense.

    But if you kill off old people instead in your stupid wars, you lighten the burden on social security beause there are then fewer people receiving money from the system. It becomes a double-win, as you preserve the lives of future taxpayers while reducing the numbers of recipients.

    Of course, if they do begin to draft old people, I will again refuse to go. And the AARP will throw its entire (significant) lobbying force against whatever war the digbats in power want to fight.
     
  2. Starfall

    Starfall New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2006
    215
    0
    0
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Oct 14 2006, 06:16 PM) [snapback]332856[/snapback]</div>
    Hmmm. Not a single smilie.

    That said, how about the Soylent Green solution? It takes care of the seniors, solves the whole Social Security (& especially the Medicare!) mess, plus contributes to the food supply. Edward G. Robinson was happy enough with it. <_<
     
  3. huskers

    huskers Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    2,544
    2,486
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Then we cound not put them out on the ice to die! :(
     
  4. Schmika

    Schmika New Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    1,617
    2
    0
    Location:
    Xenia, OH
    Well, it would guarantee that in about 5 years we would all be speaking Korean, Chinese, or Arabic.

    One of the sillier comments by Daniel.
     
  5. Etel Rose

    Etel Rose New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    37
    0
    0
    I think the people who support the war need to be the ones who fight it. Why aren't the Bush girls in Iraq?
     
  6. silentak1

    silentak1 Since 2005

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    893
    28
    0
    Location:
    LA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    my 2 cents

    1) The gov't needs young people who want to probe something and earn a purple heart
    2) Old people just want to come back home safely (not that young don't, but they want a medal on the way back)
    3) Human reaction times
     
  7. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    10,339
    14
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    I think it's a great idea. In fact it should only be retirees that are drafted. After all, they're not contributing anything anymore.

    And don't forget that along with the "poverty draft" they got the "poverty G. I. Bill". Instead of getting a free college education, they now have to pay half. With the old draft you can eliminate the G.I. Bill completely. What old geezer is going to want to go to college if they survive their tourS of duty? And if the geezers have failed to make a will leaving their meager goods to their surviving kin..the government will get that too.

    Perhaps we can also draft illegal aliens. That will certainly provide them with steady work.
     
  8. Sufferin' Prius Envy

    Sufferin' Prius Envy Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    3,998
    18
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Oct 14 2006, 07:25 PM) [snapback]332895[/snapback]</div>
    Yes, it's a silly idea, but, unfortunately, I'm beginning to believe that he actually believes what he writes has credibility and that he truly believes himself. I'm wondering if we are dealing with someone certifiable . . .

    This is my favorite Daniel twist on reality . . .
    (I bring it up every once in a while for the giggle factor . . . and in hopes he tries to explain . . . which would undoubtedly lead to more laughs and rolling eyes.) :lol: :rolleyes:

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 2 2006, 07:59 AM) [snapback]248538[/snapback]</div>
    He even promised to respond to the proof to the contrary that I had posted:
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 4 2006, 05:31 PM) [snapback]249965[/snapback]</div>
    Come on Daniel . . . it's now been a full six months. What's wrong? The people at the legal aid office not returning you calls? Aren't you the least bit ashamed that you can make such a claim, confirm your assertion, and then not be able to provide proof when called out on it? . . . EVEN WHEN YOU PROMISED TO BACK IT UP???? :rolleyes:

    If you can't back up your statements with proof, you are a fraud and have absolutely no credibility it the world of reality. :angry:
     
  9. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    3,945
    304
    0
    The families of politicians, non voters supporters should be forced to serve. Politicians' families first, followed by eligable non voters (notice I didn't say non-registered voters, as they are non-voters). Then, the supporters. Therefore if I voted D and a D started a war I should be REQUIRED to serve, right after the politician's relatives and non voters have signed up. War? What war?
     
  10. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Oct 15 2006, 08:48 AM) [snapback]332991[/snapback]</div>
    Nope. The folks at the legal aid office never did answer my emails. I do know that I was told by lawyers who I believe to be knowledgeable in the field, that entering the country without documents was not actually a crime. I also know that none of our clients or their relatives or people I've met in other circumstances, was ever charged with a crime for entering the country undocumented. They are either deported, or released (sometimes on their own recognizance) or permitted to leave voluntarily. But in all my experience working in the legal aid office and in the homeless shelter, I never heard of an undocumented immigrant being charged with the crime of entering undocumented.

    And I really could not care less whether you think I have credibility or not. I am disappointed that the people I worked with have not replied to my emails. But if you think that makes me a fraud, that reflects more on you than on me.
     
  11. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    4,333
    7
    0
    Location:
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Oct 15 2006, 03:23 PM) [snapback]333117[/snapback]</div>
    That is a correct statement of the law. However, it is a crime to reenter the United States without a visa if one has previously been deported.
     
  12. Schmika

    Schmika New Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    1,617
    2
    0
    Location:
    Xenia, OH
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Oct 15 2006, 11:48 AM) [snapback]332991[/snapback]</div>

    I won't go there. I actually respect that Daniel is consistent and believes these things so fervently. I just think he is so wrong.....I don't want anyone he supports to ever be in power.

    Oh, and about thinking that if people had to send their own kids/relative3s to war there would be no wars. What a misguided statement. Just because YOU would never want to fight for this country or have your relatives do it...doesn't mean everyone thinks like you. There was a time when people were proud to serve...and families still encourage their own kids to serve.

    I really am sick of those type of comments because it defies common sense. Why doesn't President Bush send his dsughter to fight???? Because they are adults and can decide for themselves....THANK GOD FOR THAT!!!!!
     
  13. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    6,280
    378
    0
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Oct 15 2006, 02:05 AM) [snapback]332942[/snapback]</div>
    Now thats the smartest thing I've heard!... If they want to earn thier keep, let them start there... they will end up with full benifits and schooling... just like they want.. if they survive...

    but at least they would have earned it, instead of getting it scott free without years of working thier way up.
    If we are going to give of our resources away freely earned from generations of sweat and blood.. let them earn it and do thier part...

    As far as drafting the old folks... they can't be too old, or they will be a liablity rather than a help.
    I don't know who all has done any type of military or paramilitary training... but the old could not adapt, heal, and physically stand up to the lack of sleep and physical stress of true wartime.

    Also, many of them wield alot of responsiblity over large firms and thier losing the authority and knowledge they possess would cripple many parts of our society.

    However, I do like the idea of having someone with some judgement skills fighting our war... but hopefully they are our generals and leaders... its does get scary to give a young guy full of piss and vinegar and no judgement skills a weapon..... but thats the way its always been.

    Maybe the young ones take orders better by intimidation.

    Some of what makes our society so great is the fact that many who carry great authority and power started in the military and learned early to work hard and be disciplined.

    Our youth today have it so easy in our nation of wealth and liberal rights and free handouts, that they don't understand if they have to pay a price for anything... not even freedom,
    they don't understand that everything we have that the world is envious for was bought with blood, sweat and tears. Someone gave his life so they could keep thiers... nope, the whole world is viewed as mom and dad and they expect everything for free, and are bitter and resentful if they find no one really cares for them and they should have learned to care for themselves.
     
  14. Sufferin' Prius Envy

    Sufferin' Prius Envy Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    3,998
    18
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Oct 15 2006, 03:23 PM) [snapback]333117[/snapback]</div>
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Oct 15 2006, 04:06 PM) [snapback]333140[/snapback]</div>
    Funny how most of you people in your liberal mutual admiration society make wild proclamations about reality, law, political stuff and then don't back it up with fact.

    So Daniel and IsrAmeriPrius SAY it isn't against the law to enter the USA without documents . . . WELL THERE YOU HAVE IT . . . IT MUST BE LAW! . . . because they say so. :rolleyes:

    You know what? The internet is a wonderful research tool. You can find most anything on the internet . . . EVEN THE LAW!!! So do Daniel or IsrAmeriPrius offer up some research to prove their statements? NO. Daniel would rather hide behind the weak excuse of “a lawyer told me, and they aren't returning my emails.†IsrAmeriPrius on the other hand just flaps his proverbial lips.

    At lest in the string where Daniel made his dumb comment, Jared2 did some research and posted it . . . and to his credit, he told the truth . . . and the truth backs ME up! :eek: :p

    “Not only is it a crime to enter the U.S. illegally, it is a crime to "harbor" or employ an illegal alien. You can go to jail for 5 years for even encouraging an alien to remain in the US.

    Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
    Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(iii)â€

    [snip]
    http://priuschat.com/index.php?s=&show...st&p=249786

    I guess Jared2 either already knew the law, read my post of immigration laws which say it is illegal,
    http://priuschat.com/index.php?s=&show...st&p=249591
    or he did his own independent research. Even though I may not agree with most of his politics, he tends to earn my credibility respect. :)
     
  15. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    7,201
    1,073
    0
    Location:
    Northampton, MA
    Vehicle:
    2022 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    This sounds like a good idea to make Dubya, Cheney, Gingrich, Rush, and all the other Chickenhawks to put up or shut up. They want war so badly? Great - they can finally fight in one instead of sending other people to do it for them!
     
  16. jared2

    jared2 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    1,615
    1
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Oct 15 2006, 10:43 PM) [snapback]333257[/snapback]</div>
    ;)
     
  17. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    1,208
    0
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Oct 15 2006, 09:43 PM) [snapback]333257[/snapback]</div>
    He said it, AND... it was on the internet.... Those are the big tests for if it's fact or just plain 'ol BS.
     
  18. Pinto Girl

    Pinto Girl New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    3,093
    350
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Oct 16 2006, 04:38 AM) [snapback]333328[/snapback]</div>
    Chickenhawk? Teehee.

    Actually, Foley's the chickenhawk. My understanding is, a chickenhawk is an older man who has an interest in pursuing homosexual relations with the young'uns...

    ___________

    Seriously, I think that we need to work harder to avoid getting these blockheads into office in the first place; once they're there, it's much more difficult, and disruptive, to change the course of policy.
     
  19. jared2

    jared2 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    1,615
    1
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 16 2006, 03:13 PM) [snapback]333580[/snapback]</div>

    Chickenhawk can mean older men lusting after young men, or it can refer to old bellicose men who can't get it up anymore compensating for this by sending young men to die in useless wars that they avoided in their youth because they "had other priorities", the most important one being to avoid war zones at all costs. Some politicians are "chickenhawks" in both senses of the word.
     
  20. chimohio

    chimohio New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2006
    460
    0
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 16 2006, 03:52 PM) [snapback]333618[/snapback]</div>
    Or their just chicken "s%#ts"