2020 Prius Prime and Extreme Cold...

It doesn't get that cold here on the west coast, California North.

 

I doesn't get that cold here, either. Yet I managed to freeze my whole washer fluid tank into a solid block of blue ice simply by driving with Florida-bought washer fluid to Ohio for Christmas a few years ago. I had to take the whole tank into the house and thaw it out so I could put Ohio washer fluid in it. And stopping every few minutes to clear the windshield for the last 100 miles in the snow was not fun at all.

Similar thing happened on a trip to Colorado with a FL vehicle. Tank didn't freeze, but the windshield sure did. IMHO, all washer fluid should be good for any temperature that the car is capable of encountering.

 

Well, the extreme cold rated washer fluid usually -25F (-32C) to -40F (-40C) sold in cold climate won't freeze solid in the jug or in the vehicle's reservoir down to the rated temperature. However, once it's sprayed onto the windshield, the methanol evaporates quickly, especially when the car is traveling at highway speeds. The less methanol left, the faster the remaining water will freeze. I use the lowest-rated washer fluid I can find on a store shelf, usually rated -30F, but it still re-freeze on the front glass immediately after spraying and wiping to the thin film making the visibility worse than without using the washer fluid. All this is happening in around 10F (-12C) and blow.

Manufactures can make the washer fluid freezing point even lower by increasing the alcohol percentage, but I read somewhere that making the alcohol content higher than 50% will make the selling such fluid difficult as it now has to be labeled as flammable liquid.

 

I've driven in temps under -20 and even under -30, so I know what you mean. But I was describing normal winter weather. When the stuff froze in the tank, it was above 0F. My point is that people should not have to special order washer fluid and pump out the old stuff just to drive from the southern US to the northern US in the winter. It never occurred to me, the first time it happened, that the washer fluid sold down here is for local use only this time of year. If I was visiting my sister in Iowa now, I'd be dealing with that again!

Edit to add: Sorry. Rant off.

 

I got the Spark from California and the washer fluid froze when the temps dropped around here.

 

I know what you mean. You must be talking about those "summer" washer fluid with a rated freezing point of +32F. I've never seen them sold up here on a store shelf. Now I wonder, would I have to special order that summer fluid if I decide to drive my car down to Florida? Probably not... So what is the point of having "summer blend" for the washer fluid... I wonder???

 

They even sell summer blend in Colorado in the summer. I don't go through it fast enough in the summer to ever use it. The advantage is it's better for the environment to not have a bunch of methanol evaporating. And it's probably cheaper to produce (it's just soapy water).

I use rainx fluid which has about 5% propylene or ethylene glycol. I was thinking that might help with the problem of it freezing on the windshield as the methanol evaporates, but it doesn't make much difference. Glycol is bad for paint, but I haven't noticed any negative effects yet.

 

Yeah up here they sell "summer" washer fluid through summer, and the freeze-protected stuff can be hard to find. But I really don't get it: you barely use the washer fluid through summer, and chances are come January most of the summer stuff will still be in there. I just put in freeze-protected, any time of year.

Off-topic, but we had a cold snap and a good dump of snow over the last week or so. It's starting to warm up, getting back above 0C, and yesterday afternoon my wife hears a massive clatter from the front porch. I take a look, and an eavestrough downspout has dropped out of it's connector to the eave. I'm trying to coax it back into position, and sections of ice start coming out the bottom: very pretty, perfect replicas of the downspout interior, and I'm snapping them off as they slide out.

Gave up after getting about half out, left the rest to melt.

 

I've noticed here that in some stores they are stocking winter blend. But it very pricy.

 

GoPro cameras for the dashboard & window. Android tablet for data capture via ODB-II bluetooth. Pinnacle software to edit it all together with narration, then speed up the playback.

 

I am Calgary. Do u have remote starter? Do I need remote starter for this car.?

 

Due to cold? Do you know if it’s got the block heater? I seem to recall some Prius destined for interior regions have the BH installed on all, maybe at factory.

Are you parked outdoor btw?

 

PP will not start the engine if it is plugged in. I have read threads where some people installed an aftermarket engine starter on PP and use it during winter but never charge the traction battery. If that is your plan, then there are engine starters that can work.

 

Great info for this PP newbie also in Winterpeg.

Which 120v car heater are you using wired with your block heater?

 

I am so jonesing for a new Prime tech package. I have been bouncing around between it, the bolt, a used model 3 and a couple of other korean EV's and PHEV. The Prime keeps calling to me. I love the interior, the look of the car, and the overall efficiency of it. I love the fact that I can do 90 percent of my daily driving using only battery power and still not have range anxiety. It will be my next car. I am going to probably going to purchase a gently loved pre owned unit and drive the wheels off it.

As for the winter windshield wash, for my Canadian brothers and sisters here, use CT reflex ice melter wash. It's the best I have ever used. I have over 1,000,000 kms under my butt driving and this is by far the best winter wash product I have used.

 

hey, also in Winnipeg do you find on our coldest days that your car won’t go into EV mode even with heat off, I’ll get engine warming up message sometimes for my half hour commute. Also how do you track your electric usage?

 

Our 2022 Prime will consistently go into EV mode if -10C or warmer independent of cabin temperature setting.

Between -11C and about -19C, it will go in and out of EV. Less so with a lower cabin temperature setting.

Anything colder than -19C and it never goes into EV mode.

As for energy consumption, I do not track it.


iPhone ?

 

My observation is that it is not so much about the ambient temperature, but rather the battery temperature is what controls whether the car can go into EV mode or the engine will start. On one day when our coldest morning temp was around 0F (-18C) I drove my PP cold soaked overnight, a total of 11miles started with a full battery. I made two stops. Each stop was longer than 1 hour.

1. In the first leg of the 5 miles, the traction battery sensor temp stayed at 10F (-12C) throughout. The car did not go into EV mode. The engine stayed on all the way for the entire 5 miles drive.
2. In the second leg of the 3 miles, the traction battery sensor temp was up and started at 14F (-10C) and climbed up to 23F(-5C). The car stayed in EV mode throughout. Never fired an engine.
3. In the third leg of the 3 miles, the traction battery sensor temp stayed at 23F (-5C). The car started in EV mode but on the downhill, the engine started and finished the warm-up cycle.

For all three legs of the trip, the HVAC was OFF. While it is true that the HVAC setting will change the behaviour of the engine starting, at least without HVAC, the cut-off traction battery temp for EV mode and engine ON seems to be somewhere between 10F (-12C) to 14F (-10C).

BTW, the energy consumption (kWh) is monitored by kWh meter either in the aftermarket L2 EVSE or using a Kill-a-Watt meter on the wall plug for OEM L1 EVSE. I have been recording my energy use for all three of my PPs since 2017.

 

I'll add my two cents to this thread just to see if anyone can confirm my observations.

Since I still have a 2018 and a 2020, both cars continue to be driven almost every day, all year around so I can comfortably make the following claims:

Conditions: Both cars sleep in an attached garage during the night (~10C higher than outside temps). During the weekdays, the cars are kept in heated indoor parking (22C). At home, block heaters are used when ambient temps dip below -10C for at most 4 hours prior to departure. While still at home and when temps dip below -20C, we heat the cabins with 200W resistive electric heaters for at least two hours before driving. Our commutes rarely exceed 30 kms both ways and because of this we rarely use the heat pump or engine to heat the cabin when the temps dip below -10C. Seat and steering wheel heaters are used all the time and when needed. While at home the cars are plugged to an L2 cable all the time. 12V batteries are always topped off and the onboard trickle charger shares the same plug wiring used by the block heater.

1 - The way the 2018 and 2020 behave in the winter months could not be more different in terms of the affinity to remain in EV when the ambient temps are well below -10C. We can literally drive the 2018 all winter long without the engine ever coming on. In fact, I am now using Shell Premium because it has 0% Ethanol, and we keep the tank at no more than 30% full because of this.

2- While it is possible to perform similar EV only commutes on the 2020 especially when temps above -10C, the urge for it to fire up the engine in much more pronounced when the temps are much lower than -10C. If we do not use the block heater then the engine will start the moment we power up the car. The 2018 will never start the engine even if the ambient temps are below -25C (with or without a block heater warm-up).

3- The likelihood the 2020 will start the engine in very low temps increases if it has not been driven for more than two days while still plugged in to the L2 cable. I suspect the battery heater will be turned off if the car remains plugged in to the L2 for more than 2 days. Keeping the block heater plugged in makes no difference here. The 2018 will not behave this way and will stay in EV unless #4 happens.

4- While the 2018 tends to stay in EV mode at very cold temps more often than the 2020, the engine will still come on if we:
- Accelerate aggressively or...
- Regen via deceleration while the pack is at 90% or higher

That is it in a nutshell. Not surprisingly, the 2020 has a much worse historical avg efficiency than the 2018:
2018 - 11.8 kwh/100km 0.3 L/100km after 40,000 kms
2020 - 13+ kwh/100km 1.4 L/100km after 20,000 kms

Here's one last interesting bit of info:
- During the summertime months (20C and higher temps) it is easier for the 2020 to score 8kwh/100km commutes than it is for me to do the same on the 2018. ;

BTW: If I recall correctly, the 2018 MY has an 8 year warranty on the battery pack while the 2020 has a 10 Year.


Cheers