Featured Best answer I've seen yet from Toyota about going full EV

Well no.

Formula One batteries are very expensive but have a very high C rate allowing 120 KW to discharge from a 2 kwh or less battery pack that is a C rate of 60+ kwh/kw. I believe the prime battery has a C rate slightly above 7 kw/kwh while tesla is slightly above 4. Its likely that tesla batteries were underrated, but to give similar acceleration with the same design on the prime, toyota would likely need to up the size to 12 kwh or use a more power dense formula.

The weight is likely similar for a air cooled 8.8 kwh pack and a liquid cooled tesla like pack plus the cooling system, but the liquid cooled pack would likely be easier to package. A 12 kwh liquid cooled pack will of course allow larger electric range than a 8.8 kwh air cooled pack.

Here is toyota engineering to heat and cool the battery with resistance and air flow.

 

At the time, I had a 2012 Prius plug-in, when I followed a friend to the Chevy dealer. A salesman asked me if I would like to take a Volt out for a test drive. I went home that night with the Volt and I still have it 5 1/2 years later.

 

0ur neighbor has been letting ys use his 2018 volt un hopes we'll buy it off him. At 6"-5" it's going to be cramped for someone sitting behind me as a driver .... + ..... we are far from being spring chickens, which means it's no longer a breeze - stooping down lower to enter into a sedan, but it was no cakewalk in our Prius either.
Thx @austingreen for the Pri traction pack link. The speaker mentions a 270 lb weight ....
If you have TWO Prime traction packs, interestingly you have virtually the same weight & kWh's as the Volt (Chargepoint shows >16kWh's added from 0) .... with the volt being 5 lb is less weight than 2 Prime packs. So the weight advantage of air cooled doesn't seem to be a factor .... it'd just be more cost 4 liquid cooling, as well as the 10%-15% EPA mileage hit from an additional 270Lb weight (2x bigger capacity) - when drivers are out on the freeway, 70mph, using charge sustain mode.
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Perhaps direct observation might help. We owned a 2014 BMW i3-REx and 2017 Prius Prime between Dec 2016 and March 2019:

• 2014 BMW i3-REx 72 mi EV, 78 mi gas (used) - This became our primary ride around town because it could make ~10 stops before needing a charge. The motorcycle sized gas tank easily handled cross country travel, ~$6, at 1/4th the cost of EV charging, ~$24, for 120 mile trip, gas and electric. The gas engine sustains 70 mph at 39-40 MPG. With a 125 kW (71 167 hp), it has definite scoot. We still have this car as backup for our Standard Range Plus (SR+) Model 3.
• 2017 Prius Prime 25 mi EV, 615 mi gas (new) - Used for backup when the BMW was in the shop and long distance travel, +200 mi, it became the 'hanger queen.' It was Prius slow and easy around town and easy to trade-in for our SR+ Model 3.

Would a 53 mi EV Volt work? Not when we have a 72 mi EV BMW i3-REx for around town which are over 90% of our miles.

How about on the highway? Volt at 42 MPG and 367 mi gas range is not that much cheaper per mile than the 39 MPG and 78 mi gas range BMW i3-REx. In theory, the Volt would need about 1/4th the number of gas stops but in practice, old people kinda like frequent biology breaks. We can drive 367 miles, ~5 hours, provided no one tries to drink from the soda bottles tossed out the window or emptied into the slip-stream.

Bob Wilson

 

...within the battery pack? I guess not. But that's not where anybody's putting the coolant pump, pipes, cabin heat exchangers or radiators, is it?

 

I had a 4 day test drive and I saw that the 36 HP gas engine could sustain highway speeds in its series hybrid mode, out here on the lonesome prairie.
What I didn't see was how it would perform if there was a mountain range between you and the next gas station stop <80 miles away.
I assumed it would not be a good road trip PHEV.

Speaking of Road Trip !!!!
Come on Bob,,, don't do that. Either of way....
I use gatorade bottles. (wide mouth) and dispose of them properly.

 

I have no problem driving that in my Gen 1 Volt, first hand experience and I'm no spring chicken myself.

 

maybe not the cabin heat exchanger, but the links I found show the pipes, coolant & plumbing are included in pack weight - but I'd be happy to be educated otherwise - if I could get a link.
.

 

There is already a liquid cooling system in place for the inverter and motors. The only weight gain from adding the battery to the loop will be in upgrading the system for the larger load.

 

My drive home was from Charlotte NC to Huntsville:

This was my first BMW i3-REx test drive and drive home. It turns out the BMW climbs hills a little better than semi-trailer trucks. On the backside, regeneration was a hoot.

I was born in 1949 (birthday in two days) and my wife in 1937. She also has a kidney issue due to a severe infection about 6 years ago and insists on traveling with her three dogs. Since I do all of the driving, frequent pee, coffee, and walk around breaks help.

I can see any of the Volts could work for some. It is closer to our BMW profile than the Prius Prime. Just 90% of our miles are around town and the 72 mi EV range makes the BMW the champ.

The ~78 mi gas range, far from being a problem (more since we coded the gas tank from 1.9-2.3 gal, ~100 mi), fully meets how we drive. It turns out the SR+ Model 3 segments, typically 120-150 miles, are on the far side of how long, 2-2.5 hours, we like to go. Drop wife at 'restroom' and snack business; drive to SuperCharger; walk dogs back to wife; walk the dogs back to car, and; pickup wife.

Bob Wilson

 

Happy Birthday, Bob!
Ashland, Va. where I filled the tank,to my driveway in NJ.

 

Prime sales are flourishing because of tax credits and other benefits (HOV lane), that makes it simply a cheaper and better Prius. Take this away and sales will nosedive. Even with €2,500 subsidies in my country Prime with a sticker price of €35k isn't selling well in EU compared to €28k normal Prius, not to mention €23k Corolla Touring Sports hybrid (all comparable packages). It may be Toyota choice to price differently in different markets, but doubt they are overpricing Prime on purpose, it's more likely they are under pricing it in US, because of other (ZEV?) credits, they get by doing so.

I didn't mean the fuel economy. The problem with PHEVs is that people just don't get them, they don't understand why two fuel sources, what happens when one runs out etc.... Majority of people don't even understand normal hybrids, they still think that you have to plug any hybrid and the battery will run out and car will just stand there.

To me a normal hybrid is automatic transmission with better fuel economy than manual transmission and better responsiveness than normal automatic transmission. Easily worth about €3k price premium. A PHEV must set the bar even higher and I think they got it with new RAV4, at least the responsiveness and packaging part.

 

i wouldn't say prime sales are flourishing here, i would simply say they are a better option of a very limited market

 

still - in an economy stoked by cheap gas, where land barges reign supreme nowadays, any car doing as well as the prime is doing, even as other mid & small cars are being scuttled, is a testament to its ability to be a survivor. Once the RAV4 Prime hits the sales lots, the survival test for the sedan Prime will be telling.
.

 

no question, or if they stop hov stickers, tax credits or massive discounting.

 

i've been waiting so long for the next recession, it's getting a little unnerving

 

i'm serious. in my lifetime, the reccesions have come more regularly. i'm concerned the next one might be a whopper