Featured Best answer I've seen yet from Toyota about going full EV

But you still have the time it takes to schedule and drive somewhere for all the routine maintenance required for an old school Gasser.
And the cost of all those oil changes and other routine items. That all adds up to dollars and waste products.

-Do you know how much time and money I've spent on maintenance on my little BEV in 4.5 yrs and 73K miles?
Hint: Just tires. Because this FUN little BEV is actually a Hybrid. It burns electrons and rubber! It's a hoot!
-Do you know how much I spent on electrons?
Hint: I mostly use a free L2 near my work. In the winter I plug in at home overnight just to keep the battery temp happy. (Wish I could run TMS without the charging.) I'll occasionally use DCFC or plug in at home on weekends.

Face it. The EV tipping point is coming for most drivers.

 

oil changes are a half mile walk. i do the filters. thats all there is in 75.000 miles/5 years.

i agree there are advantages and disadvantages to bev's, but cost is still a disadvantage.

the tipping point? i think its quite a ways away, but it is getting closer every day.

 

The tipping point for EV is a long way off being the bread-n-butter replacement for ICE...if that indeed is what replaces ICE industry wide.

 

According to VW, the tipping point is near. Trust us.
LA Auto Show: Volkswagen says EV tipping point is in sight - Electrek

 

freedom vs jail?

 

Well, you do some of the maintenance, great!
(Not sure how do you separate filter changes from oil changes?)

Either way,, You Da'Man for doing some of it yourself !!
And I am Da'man for doing all of the routine maintenance on my gassers. ( Hate it....)

But with my BEV, it is SO nice NOT walking down that 'half mile' oil change road!
Think of all the time saved not going to the auto parts store for supplies, jacking, doing the deed, oil above the glove, disposing, etc...

BEV's give you so much more time in your life, by not dikin with all that messy crap!

 

ya, i menat air and cabin filters. tesla doesn't have a cabin filter?

either way, the discussion is about cost. i'll be happy to buy a prius sized bev when they come out for 20k after all tax credits, rebates and etc., if they don't screw up the interior space again.

and i like walking

 

The used EV market appears to be going gangbusters. I bought my Spark EV from Carvana, so I decided to check them to see how the Spark sales are doing. Well, out of 82 listings, over half were already spoken for. I then checked the Bolt and there were two listings, both spoken for. Next was the Leaf and out of 120 listings, a little less than half were spoken for. The last I checked was Tesla. I picked all models and out of 91 listings, more than half were already spoken for.

 

El Dobro said

I think so too, My friend picked up a used leaf for 8k Canadian with 60 k (km) , hes been off grid with solar for a decade now and broke even years ago even with new batteries and now saves yet another $100 a week on gas for his "local' vehicle. We will see what service cost are. Very few leafs but great deals when they come off lease.

 

Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread...but how did you like Carvana? I think it is a great idea....but don't know anyone that has tried it.

Thx in advance!

 

Dealing with Carvana was a very easy and straightforward experience. You pick the car, the paperwork starts over the internet and the car either gets delivered to your home or you pick it up at one of their sites, depending on the distance. The only issue that came up was removing the sales tax, as NJ doesn't charge any for new or used EVs and that was all straightened out. I would not hesitate using them again.

 

Honda & Toyota To Emphasize Hybrids Over Battery Electric Vehicles | CleanTechnica

 

"Tipping Point" really doesn't tell us anything, since it means different things to different audiences.

For example, we hit "Peak Oil" an entire decade ago based on the simple fact that the audience changed. The instability initial caused by $4 per gallon gas was dealt with by introducing a flood of new investment. Now looking back, we see that those big players never actually recovered. The stability was restored by a number of smaller players filling in the gaps... but with newer technology... which permanently altered the dynamics of the playing field. So as someone directly involved in that market, you have new players.

That parallel works its way into the automotive industry as well, but with climate change and emission concern adding to the problems related to that change in the oil industry. Like gas stations, the true buyers of the product aren't the consumers. They require their big tanks to be filled so they will have something to sell. Sound familiar? People still need transport. People will still go to a seller for their purchase... their local dealership. Newer technology comes into play here too. The new players are suppliers.

Most drivers looking to purchase a new vehicle couldn't care less. That audience doesn't matter. They do though, to dealers attempting to make sense of where their business is heading. That's what makes this topic so complex, no brief online discussion thread can address it properly. In fact, some won't even really notice what's playing out until years later. Just look at the failure of GM to do anything with their once highly praised technology for Volt. All that effort only to abandon the effort.

Notice how GM's CEO just made this statement: "We've announced we'll have 20 EVs globally by 2023." Think about who that was directed at. It was a group of investors, not future GM customers. That diversity of a product-line addresses exactly what Volt failed to achieve. It doesn't address volume though. Having a wide-variety of choices doesn't mean there will actually be enough produced to meet demand. Supply isn't being talked about yet. That audience will have to wait until this audience is first satisfied.

In short, focus on actions, not words.

 

oh no! i agree with john!

 

Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree, agreeably. Especially when we grasp we're all looking to promote efficiency
Now ... Let's all hold hands & sing Kumbaya

.

 

yep

Peak US oil happened a long time ago. Worldwide oil production will peak with demand not supply.

World Crude Oil Production by Year (Thousand Barrels per Day)

World Oil Production as of March 2019 » Peak Oil Barrel
You are probably thinking 2005, where oil hit a local peak before recovering over that in 2010. Since then oil production has been slowly rising from 74 million barrels a day in 2010 to over 81 million now.

With GM's market value now falling bellow tesla's I don't think GM had much of a choice but to embrace plug-ins. We will see what they really come up with. That volt should have spawned something like the upcoming toyota rav4 phev, but gm never got there. The bolt is fine, but really with the tesla model 3 and upcoming model Y, Ford Mach E, etc, gm needs to get moving.

When enough of the market is electrified (china the largest auto market is moving quickly) then peak oil demand will happen ;-)

 

How are you directly involved in this 'market'? If you can't answer, we understand....
I agree that GM failed by dropping the Volt and its tech.

OK, I also have an opinion on 'local dealership'. Will we always have to have dealerships to buy cars?
Why can't I order a car thru Amazon and have it delivered in a few days?
Will we always need Shoe Stores and Car Dealerships to 'Try on' a new purchase?

The rest of your post are words, that I find hard to focus on. Is it just me?
Much of this post reads like a riddle, or a Haiku. I really tried to crack the code.....
John, do you have a friend that can be your editor?

 

Quickly back on topic,,, the BEV market...

I want something like a Bolt, but they don't even offer ACC as an option.
Can't afford a Tesla, no way, no how, besides,
I need a FWD hatch BEV, with proper TMS. (It's really hot and cold here.....)
That really limits the field....And toyota is NOT a player in this field.

On a recent trip I rented an Nissan Altima with ProPilot !!!!
I rented the car, but I only did some of the driving !!
My next car purchase will have something similar, if not better!

 

I don't understand why GM didn't put the Voltec system, plug or not, into a SUV/Crossover for the US market. They did for China. The hybrid Rav4 is doing quite well, the hybrid Escape is arriving at dealers, the hybrid CR-V is coming in 2020, and there will be plug in options for the Toyota and Ford. Why not have a hybrid Equinox? It seemed like they were lowering costs on the Volt.

If you can't afford a Tesla, you probably can't afford the options that fit your criteria. The 2020 Ioniq Electric is a maybe. It is getting the smaller pack option of the Kona, which is liquid cooled, but its price is unknown at this point.

Lexus unveiled their BEV for China and Europe. The battery pack had very visible blowers.