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2002 Toyota Prius every other sell half charged

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Todd Huffstetler, Oct 23, 2019.

  1. Todd Huffstetler

    Todd Huffstetler New Member

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    First cell 9.5 volts second cell 4.5 volts right on down the line , have no idea whats wrong .
     
  2. Todd Huffstetler

    Todd Huffstetler New Member

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  3. Q*bertZ

    Q*bertZ Member

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    take it apart and swap each position, see if they go back to the same voltage.
     
  4. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Can't happen. Please explain exactly how you're measuring the voltages.

    A Gen 1 module is (6) individual 1.2v NiMH cells connected in series inside the plastic body.

    7.2 volts nominal, but frequently can be 7.9-8ish for several hours right after a full/heavy charge. No module is going to be 9.5 volts other than immediately after a very heavy charge and will drop very quickly.

    What work have you performed on the battery? What is it's current state? Throw some pictures up here.

    We can and will help.
     
    #4 TMR-JWAP, Oct 23, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
  5. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Yea... Something about your voltage readings doesn't make any sense. Did you remove all the bus bars yet? Redo the voltage measurement of each module with no wire or bus bars or anything else touching the individual module terminals. The only thing touching a module terminal should be the positive and negative wires connected to the voltmeter.
     
  6. Todd Huffstetler

    Todd Huffstetler New Member

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    I removed all bus bars and measured using a multi meter . First single cell is 9.5 volts next cell is 4.5 volts next is 9.5 volts and next is 4.5 volts right on down the line . All I did was drive to town and back code is reading uneven voltages . I moved it to the garage twenty minutes later and then the time to pull it apart to check the voltages with bus bars off .
     
  7. Todd Huffstetler

    Todd Huffstetler New Member

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    Removed bus bars and checked each cell separately 9.5 then 4.5 then 9.5 right on down the line . Keep in mind I'm just putting even voltages it was like 9.2 4.3 and so on . I had driven to town twenty minutes there twenty minutes back . It sat for twenty minutes at a guess then moved it into the garage and then the time to pull it apart . I've pulled the thing four times in learning how to charge and discharge the batteries . No more than to a six volt discharge and a top charge of 8 volts three time to each cell . Pulling it again to change a eBay bought cell that went bad and again for the same thing and again to put the batteries in sequence according to charge . Code came up for uneven voltages and that it what I found . It's new to me . If I remember right it's 38 cells charged by the bus bars 24 and 24 so I have one side over charging and one side under charging . I would guess the computer in the battery pack that controls the charging might be bad as all wiring bus bars etc are good and are clean .
     
  8. Todd Huffstetler

    Todd Huffstetler New Member

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    It did happen removed bus bars to check voltages I put as 9.5 4.5 just as an even number it was more like 9.2 4.1 etc down the line high low high low high low . 38 cells 19 and 19 controlled by the computer in the battery pack ? So half are being overcharged and half are being undercharged
    Did happen bus bars off every other battery 9.3 4.2 9.1 etc right down the line . I've been learning on this car replaced bad cells with good , bad meaning cells that lost voltage just by sitting over night causing a code then lastly by putting all cells in order according to voltage . 38 cells 19 and 19 controlled by computer in the pack ? So half are over charged and half are over charged . I'm learning as I go but there is no doubt this is the reading per multi meter . Car was driven to town say 20 to 25 minutes there and then back sat in yard for like twenty minutes and then moved to the garage and taken apart . Say that took me half an hour or so then I took voltage reading .
     
  9. Q*bertZ

    Q*bertZ Member

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    Is this a rebuilt HV battery? Did some one pair a good cell with a bad cell?
     
  10. Todd Huffstetler

    Todd Huffstetler New Member

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    I rebuilt the battery with cells I bought used , had to pull it and replace cells a couple time because of the person I bought the cells from lied about them being good . On top of that I bought a few of the IMAX chargers and did a discharge / charge at a cycle of three . All cells were reading good after I pulled it again to put the cells in place according to charge of the cells . Car was running great no problems then this happened with the code unusual battery fluctuations / voltages . I'm guessing the computer in the battery pack ? What else would cause half the batteries at a charge of 4. Something and the other half at an over charge of 9. Something ? It reads as high low high low all the way down the line
     
  11. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Ok, so let me correct what I said. Can't happen, to a correctly assembled battery. Please explain how you assembled the battery.

    I have a feeling you did something seriously wrong. There is no "24 and 24" or "19 and 19". Any chance you didn't alternate + - + - ? All positives on one side and all negatives on the other? or similar? Main cables connected correctly?

    You have 38 modules connected in series. They're connected just like a 38 car train, or 38 batteries in a D cell flashlight. Every one of them gets the same charge current passed through it.

    I do not understand, at all, what you're talking about arranging the modules by voltage. I question whether you correctly assembled the modules in the battery pack and you've probably damaged half of them..

    You need to post a photo or 10 of the battery as it is right now so we can see it's condition.
     
    #11 TMR-JWAP, Oct 24, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  12. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Any two 7.2V modules should give 14.4V.

    14.4 - 9.5 = 4.9… Hmmm..

    I don’t know how you did it, but I think somehow you are reading one and a half module’s voltage followed by half a module, followed by one and a half etc…

    I’ll offer points for consistency anyway.
     
  13. Todd Huffstetler

    Todd Huffstetler New Member

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    Sorry was half asleep when I posted 11:30 pm , yes 19 and 19 . I stacked the batteries by voltage Highest to lowest according to the charge they held after sitting for a few days . I charged and discharged all the batteries three times using IMAX chargers going no lower then six volts on discharge and no higher then nine on charge . Batteries are obviously not put in positive on the same side I don't think that would have been a pretty picture or that the car would have been running fine for the last couple months , its negative positive negative positive down the line with positive started off on the correct side starting at the front of the case . The batteries have very little seepage from the positive side of each some none at all . Buss bars and wiring are all in near perfect condition as I also replaced them when I first started this project . The old ones could have been cleaned but I wanted to start off with new . When I got the car knowing it had a problem with the pack , in taking it apart it had three bad cells . My question was why half were over charging and half under , obviously there is charge going to all of them or the half that are undercharged would have no charge at all . And why 9 volts on half and four on the other half , high low high low makes no since . There has to be something that controls this or it would have happened from day one after reinstall . Thanks for getting back to me , I will do some more research and see if I can figure it out
     
  14. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Can you post some pictures of what you're looking at? Also have you tried a different voltmeter, or used the volt meter in the Imax chargers? Have you checked the battery in the voltmeter?

    If your voltages were lower than 9 volts I'd think every other module is not wired into the system at all. But again, without seeing photos, none of this makes any sense. By far the most baffling hybrid battery question I've ever seen on here!
     
  15. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Batteries are obviously..
    No, nothing is obvious, because we have no photos. What we have, is you providing a description. I know you're doing your best, but there are probably hundreds of examples of misunderstandings due to descriptions not matching reality. A good set of photos goes a long ways.

    I've disassembled and assembled dozens of Gen 1 batteries. I probably have enough Gen 1 (and 1.5) modules/parts in my stock pile to build a dozen Gen 1 HV batteries this weekend if the need was there. I'd like to believe I could help you out. There are MANY very knowledgeable battery guys here, including some who do it for a living. Pictures are worth a 1000 words...
     
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  16. Todd Huffstetler

    Todd Huffstetler New Member

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    Hate to admit it but also very thankful for your post . I tried I different multi meter and I have right at eight volts all the way across with the last two cells reading 7.5 and 7.6 . I'm guessing this is a difference in voltage enough to cause it to throw the code . Time to pull it apart again lol , again thanks for the help . Side note I love that voltmeter I've had it for years and it's never let me down till now .
     
  17. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    So strange how it was doing it the exact same for every other one. My thought on why a multimeter would do that is that many people don't want the positive lead touching positive when going through the modules because it requires them criss-crossing over the top of the pack with the positive wire, so they just hold the positive wire on one side and the negative wire on the other side and work straight down the line, so every other module will give a negative voltage reading on the voltmeter and with most multimeters that negative reading is still accurate, but seems that with your failing multi-meter it reads a very different voltage when hooked up to a battery in reverse? Is that what happened?

    Anyways, as far as the pack goes, there's not enough voltage difference between 7.5 and 7.6 to throw a code and without expensive diagnostic equipment even load testing might not be accurate enough to find the bad one. I'm currently almost 200 miles into a pack I've replace 7 modules in over the past year and a half and in that 200 miles it's thrown the lights several times, each time pointing to a different block. This is the first pack I worked on Spring before last and it's a study in when is my friend going to give up on it and get a better pack, but they'd rather spend their money elsewhere, so... And as much as I want to pull the pack and fix it, I'd rather wait till it gets really bad so there's less confusion about what needs to be replaced. In the meantime, I use an OBD2 with Dr. Prius app and keep my finger on the phone to take a screen shot the second the red triangle comes back. Of course yesterday was the first day I was like whatever, the packs fine, I'm tired of driving around with my hand ready to take a screen shot on a moments notice. I'll skip it today... That brought the red triangle back real quick. :)
     
  18. Todd Huffstetler

    Todd Huffstetler New Member

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    Lol that's funny I'm the same way ,the multi meter I just go down the line not crossing over and always the same meter and never had this happen . It would just show a negative voltage , no big deal right ? And the cutting the voltage in half every other time I have no idea . I grabbed my sons and it read perfect no problem and I still was not crossing over each time , go figure . I have a 2006 Prius also that I bought from my sister in really nice condition . She let her son drive it and he treated it like a race car till the engine started nocking . She had just had the hybrid battery replaced and new tires put on it . She had also bought the charger and discharger for it , over a $1000 . She let me have it all for $500 . I bought a 100,000 mile engine and transmission for it and just replaced it all . Nice little car now , been letting my mom use it while I fixed up a 2006 Dodge ram 1500 mega cab for her . Rebuilt the engine and now just adding things like black grill blacked out head light and black gas cap cover . 72 years old and she wants a eye catcher truck lol . Anyway good luck with your Prius , again thanks for the advice .
     
  19. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Thank you for showing up with these symptoms. If I had a top 10 of most interesting symptoms... This would be up near the top of em. Almost made my brain hurt... So fun to have have figured it out... A great story... I may think of it often when I look at all my multi testers for a long time!
     
    #19 PriusCamper, Oct 25, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019