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Intermittent trouble starting

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by DrTrivia, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. DrTrivia

    DrTrivia Member

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    First I'd like to start out by saying I have searched for this topic. It appears many others have had this issue, and I have not come across a thread in which a conclusion was reached. Some have reported a resolution with a new battery, or adjusting the brake pedal sensor, other have not had anything fix it. Just posting this here incase there was anything I missed (there was a LOT to read), or if anyone had this issue recently and figured out a solution:

    Since I first bought my 2011 Prius III (second hand) I have occassional problems where I will depress the brake, the start button will turn green, but pressing it will not put it in to ready mode. All the electronics will come on (to the same extent as if the start was pressed twice w/o the brake being depressed), but that's it.

    Information I have:
    Seems to occur most frequently during the winter, but also happens during the summer, and after driving when the car is warmed up. Seems entirely random. Also, in the winter, it doesn't happen more frequently when it's extremely cold (less than 25deg) than it does on warmer days. So I'm not convinced it's temperature related.

    I have always been able to eventually start the car. If I turn it on (but not ready) and wait 5-10 minutes, then it will start normally. I've never had to wait longer than that. Sometimes it will start after a minute or two, but normally takes about 5+. Sometimes it will start with the car off, if I wait a few minutes and try again, but the most reliable way to make it work is to have the electronics on.

    Things that don't work:

    *Pressing start again will either make no different, or shut the car off.
    *Depressing the brake pedal and pressing start repeatedly, or in rapid succession will not work.
    *Resetting the parking brake makes no difference
    *Pressing the brake lightly, moderately, all the way, etc, makes no difference
    *Holding the start button makes no difference
    *Attempting to jump the battery from under the hood, or through the trunk makes no difference
    *Turning off all the electronics in the vehicle (dome light, radio, fan, etc) makes no difference
    *Time of day, driving pattern, etc make no difference. It will happen whether the car has been sitting overnight (most common) or if the car has been recently driven (less common). I have been stuck at fuel pumps a few times under these circumstances.

    Things I believe I have ruled out:

    *I have tested the battery after sitting overnight and it reads 12.5V. Some people have reported this issue resolved with a new battery. However, the voltage reading, combined with the fact that this hasn't gotten worse or more frequent over the past 2 years makes me think the battery is not the problem. Also, attaching a jumper battery does not resolve the issue.

    *The brake pedal will ALWAYS make the start button turn green when any pressure is exerted. The amount the pedal is depressed doesn't resolve the issue, so I do not believe it is the position sensor.

    *No CEL, funny noises, etc. Car has had regular, appropriate maintenance.

    As mentioned, the problem is infrequent. Maybe a few times each summer, perhaps 6-12 times each winter (I drive multiple times a day). Won't kill me if it keeps up, but it bothers me that it keeps wasting time. Also, don't want it to be a symptom of a bigger issue that I'm ignoring.

    Thank you.
     
  2. saltdiscus

    saltdiscus Member

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  3. saltdiscus

    saltdiscus Member

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  4. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    Normally, I'd say it was a defective brake pedal sensor, but the fact that the Start button lights green probably rules that out.

    That leaves, possibly the "brains" of the whole start logic tree, whichever ECU computer controls the Start/Ready sequence.

    This will probably require the techstream software to troubleshoot, or just give in and take it into the dealer for a diagnostic. Hopefully, they can replicate the problem while it's there. It sounds like it's pretty frequent.

    Good luck.
     
  5. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    One other thing you can try that's really easy. Disconnect the 12v battery and leave it disconnected for at least 1/2 hour. Then when you reconnect the battery, all the electronics and ECUs will be rebooted, theoretically clearing any electrical gremlins hiding in the software. Or not, but I'd give it a shot. Not much to lose, except all your radio station presets and your mpg might be a bit lower while your computer learns your driving style all over again.
     
  6. DrTrivia

    DrTrivia Member

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    I have disconnected my battery in that manner to complete unrelated repairs. I don't believe it made a difference. Recently disconnected the battery to replace my front door actuators. I had this problem occur once about a week later. Thanks for the suggestion, though, it wasn't a bad idea.
     
  7. DrTrivia

    DrTrivia Member

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    Update: It's been a while, and I have no answer, but some new information. I've had the car for over 3 years now, and the issue has persisted. It appears to happen more frequently in the winter than the summer. This winter, the battery started to actually die. Three times I've come out to the car to find it unresponsive. After the second time, I removed the battery and put it on a trickle charger overnight in my house. Even fully charged, the car still had this issue literally the first time I tried to start it after putting the battery back in (and the car without power for 12+ hours). After the battery died the third time, a few weeks later, I finally bit the bullet and bought a new battery. Now, with a *completely new battery* the car still has this problem. Granted, I've never not been able to start it eventually (not counting the times the battery was actually dead). It just sometimes has to sit a few minutes before I try again and the ready light comes on. So, while I have no answers, I can personally attest to the fact that (in some cases) the failure of the ready light to come on is not battery related. I had suspected this before, but now find the evidence to be conclusive. Just wanted to add this comment for anyone else dealing with this mystery before they chuck a perfectly good car battery to try and solve the issue.
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    what voltage does the new battery measure?

    how is the connection from 12v negative to ground?
     
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  9. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    Does your Prius have the SKS (start key system)?

    If it does try turning it off when your problem happens.

    I don't have wiring diagrams for your gen 3 but my Gen 4 diagram shows the power switch going directly to the

    Certification ECU. Someone here knows more about this than me but it is something to think about.

    Have you tried putting your key next to the start button when this happens?
     
  10. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    Check the battery negative cable where it bolts to the chassis. We've seen a few cases where this becomes loose.
     
  11. solarPiP

    solarPiP Junior Member

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    Same issue just started happening this month (September) on my 2012 Plug-in Prius. It's almost a daily occurrence. takes a good 5 minutes of on/off to finally get to be able to put it into Drive. Everything exactly as you described except i'm in Dallas, Tx. and there is no winter. :) Taking it into the shop tomorrow. Hoping they will have an idea.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    is it the original 12v?
     
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  13. Eddie_SD

    Eddie_SD New Member

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    @solarPiP Did you get any feedback from the dealership on this issue?
     
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  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome!

    is it the original 12v?
     
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  15. Eddie_SD

    Eddie_SD New Member

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    Mine is not. Replaced the 12V at the dealership 3.5 years ago. I don't think it's the battery as my symptoms are identical to the OP. Issue is very sporadic and I really can't narrow down the issue. I've seen it happen when I do a bunch of short drives and I had it happen after I did 1.5 hour drive.
     
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  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    check when it happens, make sure the brake lights are on
     
    #16 bisco, Oct 4, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
  17. solarPiP

    solarPiP Junior Member

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    Mine was the original 12v. Dealership replaced the battery and problem is gone. Sorry i didn't update faster. Really sorry that I didn't think to try replacing a 7 yr old battery first before taking it to the shop.
     
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  18. Eddie_SD

    Eddie_SD New Member

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    What's interesting is sometimes when I have the problem, I can just press the start button again and then the car starts up. When this happens, I notice that my EV battery shows 7 miles (which is not true as I didn't charge my car). I wonder what this means?
     
  19. Eddie_SD

    Eddie_SD New Member

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    I think my issue was related to a bad battery. My battery had a bad cell in it which could cause the symptoms I mentioned.
     
  20. Jtelyons

    Jtelyons New Member

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    I started having this problem, too. Or at least I think it's the same. I went in to pay for gas, came back out, and when I was done it just wouldn't start!! I turned on a cabin light and it was super dim, but on. 5 minutes (and a prayer or two) later, it decided to start working... out of the past three days since it started, I've needed to give him some extra starting time 5 out of the 7 times I've driven him. It almost seems like he needs 5-10 minutes to give himself a jumpstart.... when his "prep" time is up, the cabin lights come on full brightness.
     
    GuyLR likes this.