My 2010 Prius, It's official, 1qt oil every 4,000 miles

I don't think you are strong enough to bend a rod by hand cranking, with a wrench.
It would probably get very hard, if not impossible to continue turning the engine over when the piston
gets toward the top, depending on how much fluid you put in the cylinder. Rather 2 pistons.
I imagine it would just stop. And if you kept pressure, it would slowly leak through the rings.

 

After reading through some of your recent posts, it appears that the above soak(s) did little or nothing to curtail your oil consumption.

Would really enjoy reading how the treatment(s) went, and if you noticed any short term effect from the Mopar product.

 

I have heard god things about Mopar Combustion cleaner.

 

Correct, it did not curtail oil consumption. But I have an anti-climactic update.

Just a couple of weekends ago, I had to change the spark plugs (beware of counterfeit OEM Toyota Iridium plugs purchased on ebay or Amazon) so gave it another shot with with the Mopar cleaner. This time I used the adapter from my compression tester kit to apply compressed air with the intake & exhaust valves closed, thereby pressurizing the cylinders (one at a time) to force the cleaner past the rings. The pressurizing did indeed work -- it forced the fluid past the rings. Unfortunately, I didn't have the luxury of time -- Mrs. TV needed the car back for work the following day, so I was only able to administer the "soak" for an afternoon. I would like to have had the entire weekend.

I'm sorry to report that after 1200 miles, I haven't noticed a reduction in oil consumption. I'll continue to monitor it -- as I have for the last 50K miles.

On the plus side: I'm getting pretty quick at removing and re-installing the wiper, cowl, and associated parts. With the aid of my cordless impact driver, I think I could replace the spark plugs on a Gen-3 in less than 30 minutes -- start to finish. So I suspect I'll be back in there this summer to give the pressurized piston soak another whack when I can really let the fluid soak. Stay tuned!

 

A quart every 4k isn't that bad honestly. Many folks in the BMW community would kill for that oil consumption. If you change your oil every 5k miles using the 5quart jugs commonly sold, you have an extra quart left overanyway after doing your oil change you can use for top-offs.

The alternative is the cost of a rebuild. you pick.

Here's the quart i have left over after doing an oil change on my 2015 ct200h (same engine as 3G prius) using the 5 quart amazon 0w-20 jug.

My car doesn't burn any oil but if it did, i'd use this. but now i have no need for it.

 

You should have about 0.6 quarts left over each time from a 5-quart bottle. After 7 or 8 changes, you should have enough saved to change oil without opening a new bottle.

 

Can you provide details on the counterfeit plugs? I have a set of plugs i got from ebay which look authentic waiting to go in soon.

 

This is not quite accurate. I have run M1 0w-40 in my Prius and been quite happy with it's performance, however depending on how you define true synthetic, I would suggest that there are other Mobil1 oils that are more of a true synthetic than the 0w-40...which is <20% group IV PAO base stock, with the majority being group III hydrocracked according to the MSDS.



The Mobil1 0w-20 Extended Performance is has a lot more PAO base stock, for example:


Thus I would consider this more of a true synthetic than the 0w-40, and it has a lot less sulphated ash than the 0w-40, which may help keep the EGR circuit cleaner

 

Denso : How To Spot Fake Denso Iridium Power Spark Plugs 2017 - Driven 2 Automotive Blog

NGK : WARNING - Beware of updated fake &#039;NGK Iridium IX&#039; Spark Plugs &amp; How To Spot Them - August 2017 - Driven 2 Automotive Blog

 

Thanks for the info on the plugs, the ones I got are from eBay here: Set of 4: New OEM Denso Iridium Spark Plugs 90919-01275 SC16HR11 (3499) US | eBay

Any way to tell if they're counterfeit? I mean, other than the price, lol

 

So Mobil 1 0w-40 is not a true synthetic, and Mobil 1 0w-20 EP is a closer to true synthetic compared to Mobil1 0w-40

 

yeah, it's kind of a semantics thing, at some point in the recent past, a judge somewhere in the US ruled that group 3 base oils could be labeled as 'full synthetics', where as prior to this only finished oils comprised of all group 4 (PAO) and group 5 (most commonly Esters) base stocks could label themselves as 'fully synthetic' This was the era that allowed companies like Amsoil, Redline, Motul, and others to truly distinguish themselves against some of even the best traditional oil brands, (at least on the basis of base stocks). Well, what has happened in the years since that judgement was issued is that a whole host of oils that are cheaper/easier to produce are now able to be called fully synthetic, thus making it really hard for consumers to distinguish group 3 from group 4+, thus weakening the differentiation strategy of companies like Amsoil, Motul, Redline which are more boutique brands with lots of marketing built around the strength of their base oil chemistries. And unfortunately this has resulted in those companies actually incorporating more group 3 base stocks into their products, since it costs less and they can keep calling it fully synthetic along with all their competitors that usually sell at cheaper prices. It has also made it much more difficult for consumers to understand what they're actually getting in that bottle of oil. looking at the product data sheets and safety data sheets of various oils can give you some hints, and I'm thankful that Mobil1 is pretty forthcoming, an MSDS from Redline (Which was made famous by their hi % ester formulation as required by some of the military jet engine contracts they had years ago) only has 1 line, which basically says >0% and <99% synthetic base oil stocks, or something to that effect, and again, since group 3 can be considered 'synthetic' they are fine to report it this way, even though their intention is to obfuscate the chemistries of the base stocks they are using, even if under the guise of trying to protect their trade secret formulations, etc.

Now, this begs the questions, well if the finished oils are meeting the specs as required by the manufacturers and governing bodies like ILSAC, API, ACEA, etc. who really cares what base stocks are being used? And if the oil manufacturers are able to blend finished oils comprised of group 3 and even group 2 oils that can go for extended drain intervals and still do their job of staying in grade and lubricating and cleaning and all the other stuff we need engine oils to do, again who cares what base chemistry they used to do it?

One of the common refrains I see when going too far down the tribology rabbit hole on forums like bobistheoilguy is that you shouldn't pay so much attention to the base stocks, or the additive packs, or etc. in the virgin oil you're pouring into the engine, you should just make sure it meets the manufacturers specs and you should pay more attention to how a given oil performs in your specific application, based on things like used oil analysis, oil consumption rates, etc.

And I take this message to heart, and I agree with it, but that still does not stop me from trying to find the 'best' oil to pour in up top
Right now, for my money, the Mobil1 Extended Performance 0w-20 is one of the front runners, because instead of just blending in a stronger additive pack to last for longer drain intervals, they took a more 'ground up' approach by using a substantially large percentage of PAO base stocks, which based on the chemistry will last longer than group 3 base stocks, thus requiring less in the way of additives to continue to hold up.

For many years, we have seen oil companies compete with each other on the strengths of their additive packages, with a mindset of 'more is better' (oil x has twice the moly of oil y, oil a has way more zddp than oil b, etc.) but a couple of things have come to light in recent years that indicate that more is in fact not better in oil additives in some conditions, such as the following: Calcium is a quite common oil additive that counteracts the acidic byproducts of combustion and water vapor from shortening oil life based on turning the oil acidic, more calcium = longer drain interval. Great right? Well not exactly, there's a prevailing theory now that Calcium in engine oil is the main contributing factor for LSPI (low speed pre-ignition) in gasoline direct injection engines that are replacing port injected gasoline engines by the boatload every year. We don't have GDI engines in our Prii, but the '19 Rav 4 hybrid does for example. So this example isn't 100% applicable to us, but I would rather the base oil be more resistant to acidification, rather than rely on an additive to do it, which may have unintended consequences.

Also, consider SAPS, which I think are more applicable to our situation. cut and pasting a little bit here:
SAPS stands for sulfated ash, phosphorus and sulfur. They comprise a significant portion of a motor oil’s additive content. Sulfated ash is not added to oil; it is the result of additives in the oil burning and creating ash. The additives that can produce ash are most commonly used for total base number (TBN), but also help in other areas, like antioxidancy, anti-wear, cleanliness and soot handling. Phosphorus provides anti-wear properties and further antioxidancy, while sulfur contributes antioxidancy, anti-wear properties and engine cleanliness.

Given the beneficial properties these additives impart, it’s easy to assume a higher concentration equals a better oil. But higher SAPS levels can be a detriment to expensive exhaust devices, such as diesel particulate filters (DPFs) and catalysts.

So, here again, conventional wisdom says hey SAPS are great, they have all these wonderful properties, I should want the oil with the MOST SAPS, BUTTTTT it was in the recent era when many diesels, particularly in Europe, started being fitted with DPF's to further reduce tailpipe emissions that people started to realize that oh, these chemicals we're adding into the oil are leaving deposits on stuff in the exhaust stream that is compromising their effectiveness. now, we don't have DPF's of course, or even GPF's which we will probably start seeing more of in the near future, but we do have EGR, and specifically EGR coolers with lots of tiny passageways and nooks and crannies (and of course catalytic converters) and again, I'm of the opinion that if you have a stronger base oil, with fewer additives, maybe our EGR coolers won't get clogged as much or as frequently? and lets face it, we have had a number of failures in our gen 3 prii, be it blown head gasket etc. that people have anecdotally blamed on clogged EGR circuits, but I don't think we've had anyone point fingers at bearings getting spun because there wasn't enough phosphorus in the oil. Given the bargain between a cleaner oil and one with a 'stronger' additive pack, I'll take the shorter oil change intervals and the 'weaker' oil all day. and with the M1 EP 0w-20 you may not even need to choose. and to be sure, there's probably other oils out there that are comparable to it, particularly one of Ravenol's oils I've been looking at, but they aren't as forthcoming with the MSDS data for me to tell how much PAO is actually in it.

 

Just curious... why do you put it in a jar?

 

Astounding depth there; I can't begin to keep up with you.

The main take-away for me: oil formulations might be less than optimum, to pander to customer whims?

Note to moderator (@Tideland Prius ?): it's really hard posting an emoticon on a long quote, on a phone. Each attempt jumped me up to the start of the quote, and scrolling back down, I found my fat fingers had hit the wrong emoticon maybe 1/2 a dozen times. But I persisted.

 

I didn't take pics of the plugs and their packaging when I installed them. But they were shipped from China which I knew when I purchased them. I figured there's a very good chance Toyota has sources their spark plugs from China -- there would be nothing wrong with that. When I received them, the little indiviual boxes that the plugs come in were made of thin cardboard, and the adhesive holding the boxes together was failing in some areas. This is inconsistent with other OEM Toyota parts I've bought in the past. The printing on the boxes said something like Toyota/Lexus Genuine Part -- just like this: (I'm just pulling this image off the web for demonstration purposes. Although it's an Ebay listing, so they may be counterfeit... I can't say.)

My boxes definately said, "Made in Japan". I remember this because it surprized me. I said to myself, "Let's see now, these were made in Japan, where it's more expensive to manufacture. Then they were shipped to China, then sold to me at a heavy discount with free shipping." I wasn't a Business major in school, but this just didn't add up. They looked fine, so I installed them and everything seemed fine. 25K miles later, the car starts experiencing very occasional misfires. At 30K miles, the misfires get considerably worse, so I order new plugs as a diagnostic measure. Here's what the plugs looked like after 30K miles. Keep in mind that I changed the original plugs at 115K miles and they showed no noticable wear -- they looked like they could have gone another 100K miles.
So my hypothisis is that the metal in the tips of these is simply steel or what ever. They don't contain any iridium. I think that's a pretty save conclusion.

Iridium Plug Wear by tvpierce posted Jun 15, 2019 at 7:00 AM

 

Great post!

 

It’s always been like that.

Since I only use my iPhone, what I do is wait until I’m done typing (and adding the emoticons) then insert the desired quoted text.

Otherwise I’m doing the same thing on my small iPhone 5S.

Maybe I’ll upgrade one of these days .

 

Great post, indeed (except for the part where he, y'know, went ahead and INSTALLED those plugs...).

 

How long did it take you to swap the engine? I have a 2010 that is burning a quart every 1000 miles with 162k on the odo. Starting to worry about carbon build up and cat failure.

 

2010 here. 162k miles. Burns a quart every 1000 miles or so. Oil changes every 5k miles since I bought it. It was almost new when I bought it with 7k miles on it. I try to use thicker viscosity oil for the most part. It does not seem to have any impact on consumption. It has been burning heavily for 50k miles. We commute about 180 miles a day.