I have a 2014 prius plugin. I would appreciate knowing the primary and secondary voltages of the cop (coil over plug) feeding the sparkplug. I would also appreciate knowing the secondary current. my goal is to create a voltage divider that I can use to view my secondary cop voltage and current on my lab(not car) oscilloscope. I will probably make the voltage divider out of two capacitors vs using a resistor voltage divider. to capacitively connect to the secondary I was thinking of using my inline spark checker extension that connects to the spark plug in the head and then connect the extension to the cop via a coil tester light via a silicon wire which is about 12 mm thick. I was then going to clamp onto the outside of the silicon wire with a T clamp which runs to my voltage divider and then to my bnc connector that connects the signal to my scope. I am not sure how i am going to measure the current other than maybe indirectly through the primary power lead going into the cop. any advice is welcome. I am guessing (no facts...just pure guess) that the voltage gets as high as 30,000 volts and that the current is much less than ma. Thank you for responding. bil
Sample waveforms for the ignition (IGT; ECM to igniter) and ignition confirmation (IGF; igniter to ECM) signals are given in the Repair Manual (more info); see the procedure for diagnostic trouble codes P0351 through P0354. There isn’t any information about the primary or spark currents or secondary voltage, however; presumably it’s not expected that a technician would need to measure these. I have no comment on your measurement setup. If you haven’t already, you may find it helpful to review SAE J973 JUN2013, Ignition System Measurements Procedure. (If you don’t want to pay $81 for a copy, find a university library that subscribes to the SAE MOBILUS service.)
Are these not called "coil packs" in the US? I know "coil over plug" as the method of ignition, but not for the name of the actual item.
Morning John ! Unfortunately, being an engineer, I love looking at data. Your view that Techstream offers enough data is a valid point. If I suspect a bad cop, the software will id my problem. But as mentioned, I would like to look at the oscilloscope traces to view what is happening at the time the coil discharges its energy and for the remainder of the spark cycle. For some reason the traces interest me. I am afraid that I may damage my non-auto scope with the high voltage. That is why i am seeking the information I am asking in this forum. Interestingly I found it difficult to find this information for any car manufacturer. I appreciate that spark plug gap defines the voltage (The coil will keep increasing the voltage until a discharge occurs), but with a manufacture's defined gap, that voltage should be fairly well defined. Maybe the lack of information on coil voltage at time of discharge indicates I do not understand something that would be nice to know (to hell with fixing the car). so please put up with me...You are correct, as most always, that I really do not need to go this far. Have an exciting day !
Wow !!!!! Thank you for being so helpful. I especially appreciated your reference to "Ignition System Measurements Procedure". I respect your approach. I never thought to look at SAE procedures. I should take that approach with future questions. Brilliant. Thank you for taking the time to respond with an answer that is very helpful.
You’re welcome. Some generic values, which are unlikely to apply to Prius cars, but at least give an idea of the likely orders of magnitude of the various parameters, are given in in Bosch’s Gasoline Engine Management: Systems and Components book (Springer, 2015), on page 175: Primary current (I₁): 6.5...9.0 A Charging time (T₁): 1.5...4.0 ms Secondary voltage (U₂): 29...35 kV Spark duration (Tsp): 1.3...2.0 ms Spark energy (Wsp): 30...50 mJ, up to 100 mJ for gasoline direct injection Spark current (Isp): 80...115 mA Resistance of primary winding (R₁): 0.3...0.6 Ω Resistance of secondary winding (R₂): 5...15 kΩ Number of turns in primary winding (N₁): 150...200 Number of turns in secondary winding (N₂): 8000...22,000 SAE J139 JUN2014, Ignition System Nomenclature and Terminology, uses “coil-on-plug” to refer to the ignition system design. Toyota’s term for the parts is “ignition coil assembly.”
wow. again! Thank you for your generosity. It takes time to research this stuff. to type it out. I know you guys don't like emotion....but I feel so grateful. I wish I knew how to return the generosity. I just don't know enough. thank you. Thank YOU. bil
Elektroinengieur !!! It is apparent that either you have exceptional research skills or you already had an interest in ignition systems. If the latter, can you share some interesting stories that you might have had while working in that field? bil
As far as I can tell, it's the former. Try some other obscure question that's not about ignition systems and see what happens. Being connected in some way to an organization that has a good research library and access to paywalled standards databases can definitely make the research easier.
ChapmanF......you have a wonderful sense of humor...... I am truly overwhelmed by people trying to help me....and people having a sense of humor. This kind of generosity does not happen to me very often. Thank you all
