Featured Toyota Reveals EV Prototypes Ahead of 2020 Launch

Did you look at the back? - the worst TOYOTA have ever done - in fact - about the worst anyone has ever done. And back seat windows which you can't see out of - they stop about 6" too far forward.



I sat in one in the showroom - and it was immediately claustrophobic - without being driven in it on a windy road - kids would need vomit-bags issued. Front seat was great - but if I wanted a 2 seater, I'd get a Miata/MX-5.

 

I’ll take ICE vehicles seriously when they can compete without subsidies.

 

It has an air cooled battery. You can see the fan and ducts if you pause the video.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

That's what I saw, too. Toyota said in the past they use batteries in the Prime designed specifically for heat, which are also air cooled, so it should come as no surprise they would continue to use them in the C-HR EV.

 

of COURSE they need to be competitive without incentives. In theory, between State & fed Credit incentives in the major areas - buyers are often looking at mayby $10k knocked off. Initially that will bring in more buyers that might not otherwise be able to afford them. That means manufacturers can sell more - (which they might not have otherwise sold so quickly) which helps offset the original high R&D costs. Best examples of incentives fail, is the Chevy Volt & Toyota hydrogen car. Too small, too expensive w/out the extra money. GM is now going to likely hurt for buyers on the Bolt because of lower incentives. The Toyota Mirai on the other hand, even with its free hydrogen incentive, & $1,000's more in tax incentives over EV's still is tough to unload. Some cars will move with free money, others? Not so much. How many Pips & primes have been sold so far? just out of curiosity?
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Meh, that's what happens when you try to say "hatchback" out of one side of your mouth while saying "SUV" out the other.

 

Here is a nice picture from the video:

 

There was another picture later in the video that showed quite a bit of difference between the hood and inverter. I wonder if it will have “frunk”?


iPhone ?

 

How about this concept EV from TOYOTA? Toyota RHOMBUS

 

Better chemistry & design is the preferred approach. Necessity of liquid cooling is a complexity & cost that doesn't make sense beyond early-adopter sales.

Remember, the sales pitch for EV is simplicity. Avoiding coolant, piping, a radiator, and maintenance is a vital step toward ending the reign of traditional vehicles.

 

& how does simple air cooling work - when you drive in 115° summer temps? Then turn your car off to charge in those Temps? and the asphalt you're charging/sitting on is 140°? Sure, it's cheaper to build a car that only attempts to cool by hot air, but the industry's history already shows how much longevity/capacity is retained by using much more effective liquid cooling.
Are some battery chemistries more heat resilient? Sure .... best example - Nissan Leaf doesn't destroy its traction pack as quick as it used to - now that they're using a better chemistry - but it's still suffering in a way that requires subsequent quick charges to be throttled WAY WAY back - because hot air just doesn't cut the mustard - even with the most current leading edge battery chemistries.
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I will say, IF they could come up with a chemistry which had a long life without liquid cooling, that would be better.
That said, I am very skeptical, and would need to see long term history to prove it.

 

Shows what? Where is there data with newer chemistry and forced A/C cooling?

Think about how primitive the chargers themselves were back then too. You couldn't sustain a 7.2 kW draw, but that is now becoming realistic.

 

These cars are going to China. The infrastructure and drive cycles there are going to be different than Japan and America, so we can't use two markets to judge what features and capabilities work in China.

For the rest of the post, has Toyota announced these cars coming to markets outside China?

Toyota applies HSD to anything that is remotely connected to their hybrid technology. Their FCEVs are labeled HSD.

I won't be buying a Leaf because of the battery cooling.
But the outcome of its passive air cooling can't be used to predict how active air cooling will work out long term. The old Soul EV uses active air cooling, how is its battery capacity holding up?

 

Fuel Cell Synergy Drive

 

Yes I know how simple air conditioning works because the Prime will ask to use it to cool the battery before and during a charging event (page 127 Owners Manual). And yes it uses household current to run the A/C. Why would you assume a pure EV would use only fans? And at 115 degrees you might have other issues, like the CCID inside the EVSE may not even allow charging to start because it too has a temp gauge (again in several places in the Owner’s Manual). Where I live I will never see such temperatures, but it should probably come as no surprise that an EV built by Toyota would use the A/C to cool it’s battery pack. Just like the Prime.


iPhone ?

 

sorry - i wasn't aware that it's not commonly known how even newer air cooled QC's heat up to the point that an EV will protect itself by throttling a QC charge way back to the point that it is painfully slow.
UPDATE - Nissan Responds - Nissan LEAF 40 kWh Fast Charging Issues
7kW's is nothing compared to Quick charging, only ~20% of even a slower QC.

Actually - way back when .... (1990's} ..... even Toyota's 1st gen RAV4 EV was sustaining 7.2kW's. Air cooled. But it had no QC. Some of them are still running around the landscape. Its 2nd gen rav4ev was able to sustain all the way up to 10kW's. But since its liquid cooled, it can actually do even more than that.

JdeMo charging for Rav4EV

Clever do-it-yourselfers figured out how to make it run up to 45 KW by adding a aftermarket CHAdeMO plug.

 

You are mixing issues & design.

Nissan doesn't use forced air cooling, it's only a passive approach... hence a fundamental difference. And the throttling is a multi-use exposure, not just a first recharge on a trip. For that matter, why the pivot to high-speed DC charging?

 

no pivot - Toyota's video shows multiple charge ports which means typically quick charging. Without quick charging, an EV is not much more than a longer range golf cart.

 

That has nothing to do with back-to-back usage... and borders on the realm of greenwash. You can't just be that vague, making such generalizations, and not expect to be called out.