1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Bigger Oil Filter?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by GeneTherapist, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. GeneTherapist

    GeneTherapist Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    21
    2
    0
    Location:
    Drivers Seat
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Hmmm... Dura Lube Engine Treatment, available at Pepboys is apparently 100% CAS 64742-65-0 (undeclared percentage should mean 100% right?). If the Toyota oil is 5% Adriatic Spindle Oil, that would be about 6.24 oz or 1/5 of the 32oz bottle to use a total of 3.9 quarts of oil.

    I think I'll add some of this before changing the oil and see what happens under the conditions of burning 3/4 quart in 200 miles.
     
  2. 69shovlhed

    69shovlhed Surly tree hugger

    Joined:
    May 13, 2012
    2,170
    750
    0
    Location:
    Delaware
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    you should borrow a bore scope and stick it in the oil drain plug hole, as well as check the cylinder walls for wear. if it's as gunked as you think it is, and/or the cylinder walls are scored, you will know not to waste time and money on the engine, especially if your HV battery is dying.
     
  3. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    2,369
    980
    70
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, California
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    For what it's worth, I've always used a Purolator PL20195 oil filter on my 2006. It's been 12 years since I really looked into it, so I forget what the original arguments were about the various sizes.

    I've got a Mobil 1 M1-103 oil filter that is specified for the Prius. It just seems like such a small toy that I just put it back in storage and use a PL20195 that is nearly double the size. Car has about 138,000 miles on it, with oil changes usually about 6000 miles (I ignore the nag light for quite a while...). Oil is Mobil 1, sometimes the extended service version. I refill with 3.5 quarts at changes, and top it off to full on the stick maybe a week later. Down maybe a half quart at changes.
     
  4. GeneTherapist

    GeneTherapist Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    21
    2
    0
    Location:
    Drivers Seat
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    I think it's likely a myth that there would be any cylinder wear... as I understand it that would come from a head gasket leak and/or total lack of lubrication. I don't think it's been allowed to get that bad.

    As for the HEV Battery, it's likely to just have been collecting corrosion. I looked at it in an OBD app and the cells weren't flagged as having any problem, though I was just exploring it. I'll pay closer attention when I have time to do this. A 4 year 14 volt battery will last 8 years if you treat it with battery terminal protector (it's a spray on wax or grease substance). I'm thinking my first step will be to replace the nuts and bus bars on the battery, or save $50 and just clean them and use battery terminal protector which I would just use anyways. It'll be a painstaking process with a paint brush with so many of them, but the symptoms I'm seeing are telling me that it's got corrosion on it that's wasting electrons as heat. The ICE doesn't stay off as long as it used to, and runs down without much use, though can still hold quite a bit of charge and yet my mpg is around 30mpg. At this stage of the game, I might be able to get rebuilt battery results just from cleaning the terminals. What would happen otherwise is that one cell would get significantly lower in capacity than the rest as a result of excessive corrosion on it's terminals specifically and it would overheat and give you the battery light of death. Mine hasn't done anything of the sort, so it's very likely able to be cleaned up with new zinc coated nuts and busbars or a good cleaning with a cheap acid and some battery terminal protector. In this case the removal of corrosion will increase the voltage output of the cell and only make it more homogenous to the set, it shouldn't not work better. However, since no one has yet explored this, I'll have to do some research on the battery operating temperatures at the terminal to make sure that the stuff I use on an under the hood battery won't deteriorate or release fumes in cabin or just spend an extra $50.
     
  5. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    7,035
    2,790
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    And I think you are totally wrong.
    Engine wear is NOT a myth and still occurs, after enough use, even if all systems are working perfectly.
    Slight design mistakes, manufacturing defects, poor maintenance practices or owner abuse just accelerates the wear to the point of becoming a problem.
     
  6. GeneTherapist

    GeneTherapist Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    21
    2
    0
    Location:
    Drivers Seat
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    I'll agree that there may be some types of engine wear on parts that can generally be replaced, but cylinder wear I think you would hear in the acoustics of the engine. I just don't hear any rubbing sounds... some noisy valves, but that's really all I hear. I suspect that damaged engines/engine wear was part of the stick shift phenomena, but these days, there's just no way to push an engine into or beyond the redline and no reason you'd every want to do it anyways. The power output in most engines just drops at that point, all the fun is in the healthy range. Aside from that, something would have to fail, you'd have to drive it while it was overheating, it would have to break off a valve, run out of oil completely, or have some other strange event occur to it. These are Toyotas and Toyota is very smart about how they build their engines with the exception of lower piston rings... Whatever part of the engine that requires the Adriatic Spindle/Heat Transfer oil is, is likely replaceable or not the cylinder walls. Further, as someone who would be buying the rebuild kit directly and via marked up retail, it wouldn't matter much that I might have to replace some extra parts. I might even replace some of them b/c I don't want to clean them. Then again, I'd rather stick with unworn Toyota original parts as opposed to new generic parts. Toyota/Honda metallurgy is said to be second to none and on the leading edge of the industry and where some automakers are cutting back budgets and using poor designs to increase vehicle turnover and thus profits on new car sales. Our mechanics are used to hearing one thing from marketing departments and seeing another when they crack open the engines and there have been some unfortunate exceptions in very reliable cars like the civic, not to mention very common cars that will produce more exceptions. But I'm fairly certain my 1NZ-FXE is not among them for any reason other than having engine sludge as a result of improper rather than poor maintenance.

    RobH: There are lots of different Mobile 1 synthetic oils... very low flashpoint ingredient on the one you mentioned (112C). I looked through a bunch of MSDS and didn't find anything that was all that similar to the Toyota stuff, there might be one and I certainly didn't look at all of them, but you're running blind if you don't know for sure... I'd switch back while you still can. 138k is almost brand new for a Toyota.

    For what's it's worth, I asked a dealership if there was anything special about the oil or filter they use and they didn't seem to know the difference, but using a unicorn ingredient like Adriatic Spindle Oil with it's unusually high flash point and heat transfer properties makes me think it's really important.

    The premium purolator filter looks pretty impressive, though I have to wonder why Toyota's has a cellophane seal on their's. What might it be hiding? Perhaps a light misting of some oxidation prone additive that has some purpose or another and gets washed out of the filter into the engine where it is preserved by ingredients in the oil?
     
  7. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    7,035
    2,790
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    REALLY ??
    Next you will be telling us that you can hear the germs crawling around in your lungs when you get the flu.
    Amazing.
     
  8. GeneTherapist

    GeneTherapist Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    21
    2
    0
    Location:
    Drivers Seat
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    If parts are rubbing and scraping, it will indeed make unfamiliar noises. As a newer car owner, I imagine you are less familiar with a range of anomalous automotive sounds. I on the other hand have only owned old cars and I have lots of experience both with getting them fixed and fixing them myself. I've also read a few Haynes/Chilton Manuals and some actual manufacturer shop manuals. It also helps that my first tool was an automotive stethoscope. If you know where the sound is coming from, it's alot easier to recognize and fix.

    Oh and as a matter of fact, you're doctor uses a stethoscope to do just that, and as each species of infection has a probable affinity for a particular area of the lungs in a given season, they CAN (often) guess what it is and give you an antibiotic which has a good chance of having strong efficacy against that particular infection.

    But maybe the paraffin content of Toyota oil is for the specific purpose of waxing in scratches that occur and the engines are supposed to get old and consume oil so you'll have a convenience reason to buy a newer one. We'll just have to find that out.
     
  9. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    7,035
    2,790
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    Who are you talking to ??

    I started driving a pickup truck and John Deere tractors when I was about 12.......60 years ago.
    I helped Dad rebuild a tractor when I was 14.
    I am FAR from a newer car owner.
    And I know what happens inside an engine.

    Your statement that you should be able to HEAR noises if there is wear occurring is just ridiculous.
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,686
    39,222
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Hey Sam, maybe add your age to your avatar, so people have an idea of your years of experience?
     
    Montgomery likes this.
  11. cnc97

    cnc97 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    1,422
    1,532
    38
    Location:
    Evansville, IN
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three

    +2 on this. My engine that grenaded did nothing unusual right up to the moment the rod escaped from the firewall side of the block.
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,686
    39,222
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Huh. No coolant loss?
     
    Montgomery likes this.
  13. cnc97

    cnc97 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    1,422
    1,532
    38
    Location:
    Evansville, IN
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Nothing. I had checked all fluids at 10am, at 925pm it grenaded. After tear down it looked like oil pump came apart.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  14. GeneTherapist

    GeneTherapist Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    21
    2
    0
    Location:
    Drivers Seat
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    CNC97: What brand of motor was this that grenaded?

    Sam:
    I might also add that low mileage failures on cars are also more frequently catastrophic. The longer an engine lasts, the longer it is likely to last (to a point). Though it may still reach a point of being uneconomical to repair.

    Of course, some luxury brands are designed to fail before the car starts getting ugly or gives the brand a less than elite image. Some even buy back their working cars just to junk them. I wouldn't expect that from Toyota or Honda brands.

    Anyways, harmonics testing IS used in the quality control of automotive parts to ensure reliability. So good parts running together make a certain sound lacking the sound harmonics of an inconsistent structure that can be broken or damaged when under stress.
     
  15. cnc97

    cnc97 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    1,422
    1,532
    38
    Location:
    Evansville, IN
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Deleted
     
    #35 cnc97, Apr 10, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  16. cnc97

    cnc97 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    1,422
    1,532
    38
    Location:
    Evansville, IN
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    My Gen 3 Prius engine, last 4th of July weekend. That is why I have the first Gen 3/4 hybrid Prius engine.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,686
    39,222
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    A true pioneer!

    I remember thinking: this ain't gonna work... :oops::ROFLMAO:
     
  18. cnc97

    cnc97 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    1,422
    1,532
    38
    Location:
    Evansville, IN
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three

    You’re not the only one! I had so many parts spread out I thought it would never run again.
     
    Raytheeagle and Mendel Leisk like this.
  19. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    7,035
    2,790
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    You are a real piece of work.

    Those "harmonics" are not detectable by the human ear, usually, and is something quite different than common wear.

    I'm sure that all those Volvo and Mercedes owners with over 300,000 miles will be happy to hear that their vehicles have FAILED the makers design intent.

    I quit. This is pathetic.
     
  20. cnc97

    cnc97 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    1,422
    1,532
    38
    Location:
    Evansville, IN
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Since I had no idea what the adratic spindle oil was, I had to look it up. This is what I found.

    Spindle oil is free from gumming properties.[2] Since the viscosity is so low that the oil runs off the surface of the spindle during shut-down

    You are going to knowingly dilute engine oil with 5% so that it will be more likely to run off the engine parts. This in an engine that, by your own admission burned .2 quarts in 150-200 miles. That rate of consumption is a quart in 750-1000 miles. That doesn’t make sense. It sounds like you are making it more likely for the engine to burn the oil.

    This engine is likely worn out and needs replaced.