We are the owners of a 2008 Prius and very satisfied with it. This Sunday I had some free time to myself in town when I dropped the family off for a movie and went to a Toyota dealer to look around and see the new vehicles. I wanted to at least get a glimpse of a new Prius Prime but none were on the lot. I was surprised to find a 2019 Camry Hybrid LE model that the sticker listed its mpg at 51/53. The 2019 Prius mpg is listed at 54/50. The Camry is a larger, heavier vehicle with a larger engine in it - 2.5l. It made me wonder what Toyota could do with the Prius if it actually would devote the time and effort for a redesign that would for instance allow them to double the available area for the battery compartment to allow a second battery - maybe doubling the Prius Prime EV mode to 50 miles a charge and increasing a regular Prius mpg to possibly over 60 mpg. I am probably missing something and thought I would post this just to hear others opinions.
I can't tell you much about the prime. For the regular hybrid, a bigger battery means more weight for the gas engine to pull around. The battery is just there to prevent you from noticing how little acceleration the gas engine provides. You get the electric push off, cruise on gas, recapture the electricity when you stop. Repeat. You'd be sacrificing cruise MPG to gain off-the-line performance. (not a bad thought, just not your stated goal.) I'm not sure, but I think the camry hybrid is scoring those numbers because it's got a newer generation gasoline engine than the prius. Presumably, the prius could leapfrog it if that new gas engine technology were incorporated into its smaller engine.
I'm guessing the camry has more ice torque and perhaps a lower drag profile. Either way its still a comparable sized vehicle. The prius is a lightweight vehicle. Any changes to the weight of the battery would compromise long range performance. I'd prefer an electric with 500 mile range but thats still likely a decade or more away to become mainstream and or affordable. As of now I doubt you can find many vehicles that can turn 60-70 mpg at 55mph like the prius can.
Keep in mind, if you're paying $2.90 for your fuel and driving 15,000 miles a year the difference between 54MPG and 60MPG is $80 a year. So whatever you'd use to push the Prius numbers above the Camry hybrid had better be cheap, otherwise you're just paying Toyota instead of the gas station.
Also, the EPA generates those MPG numbers from a very rigid test pattern. Drivers routinely exceed the EPA estimates on the Prius, but not as often with other cars. Real world, side by side, the Prius would probably get better mileage using the same driver in the same circumstances compared to the Camry. But the new Camry is still flat out amazing for fuel economy. As for twice as big a battery to double the Prime's range, the weight has already been mentioned. It already weighs about 270 pounds. Double that and it would be closer to a 2-passenger car than a 4-passenger. And there would be almost no storage space. As it is, the battery intrudes over two inches above the deck height in a regular Prius. HOWEVER! Battery power density is improving. I read that the Prime's battery is only about 50% bigger physically than the PiP's battery, but it packs double the kWh. So, who knows what the future will bring?
With so many more Toyota’s being hybrids I wonder if the dealers mechanics are going to get better training? Seems like when a lot of people here go to the dealer with a problem they have a bad experience.
you can monkey the prius numbers way up in the real world, the camry can't do much better, they designed it for the test to compete with honda and hunday. more battery means more money. toyota knows people are very cost sensitive to hybrid v non hybrid prime barely holds the current battery, no where for more unless you want it in the passenger seat
You guys thought of a lot of reasons I did not when wondering about a larger battery. I appreciate you mentioning them. I feel better informed now. When I looked at the Prius Prime range of 25 miles on electric I was thinking a bigger battery was the answer like they did in the Volt or Clarity. However neither one of these vehicles approach the overall efficiency of the Prime and I guess one of the reasons is what you guys mentioned about the trade off for the additional weight and electric range in overall efficiency. It sounds like any change in efficiency or range will come in the ability to pack more energy into smaller, lighter more efficient batteries.
Oh, the other thing for the prime- Double the battery size? Congrats! You just doubled the recharge time, too. Now you practically need an electrician to come out and set you up with a hi-amp 240v circuit to keep up with it. I love this site for all the information sharing. I've learned a lot reading these pages. The biggest takeaway I've had is that hybrids are a reasonably good way to get around for now, but the PHEVs and EVs need more time to mature. I'm not buying in until they can compete head-to-head with gasburners without tax incentives.
I think for most people, the Prime's range hits the sweet spot. I've have mine 2 weeks, driven 650 miles on this tank and used at most one gallon of gas.
I think the OP was proposing a redesign for the Prius to incorporate EV into its DNA rather than after-thought (kill the middle seat in the back and get rid of spare tire) method. I think it's a very valid thought. Prius is due for a redesign, especially with PHEV in mind. And maybe, just maybe Toyota will allow an adult to do the body and interior design (my theory is that the current gen 4 was designed by a teen who watched too much anime). I for one would welcome a gen 5 if it was a bit more down beat in the design department (read: classic lines, no shiny parts inside to reflect and blind, if there is a huge TV in the middle, make it do something, etc.), had useful hatchback space, 5 (real) seats and NO lack of spare wheel. I must be getting old... I realize I want a new gen 2, basically, but with (even) better efficiency and at least the same reliability/longevity and possibly (but not necessarily) a plug for 30-50 miles or so. Oh, and I want it to cost the same as comparable gasser! I'll go back to dreaming now...
Or maybe the Prime’s setup becomes the standard Prius and the Prime gets an increase in range. Honestly, you don’t have to guess. One can achieve 60mpg in the city in HV mode with the battery depleted in the Prime right now. So the larger battery plus the improvements in the Gen 4 already allow for an increase in mpg.
