Taking Bets on the real cause of my CEL - Updated

Ok, maybe third time's the charm.

After an oil overfill I got the notorious P3191 Failed to Start code. So, they fixed the oil level and (theoretically) cleaned the intake runners.

Within two days the CEL was back. This time they diagnosed an Evap code (4xx, I'll get it exactly next trip in), and replaced the Charcoal Canister, which supposedly had a leak, and the purge valve P/N 25860-21060 Valve Assy, Vacuum.

Now, two days of driving later, the CEL is back.

Any bets?

 

Well, still interesting.

To keep it all in one place, my first CEL report is Here and the second one is Here.

For the record the code on the second visit was

P0446 Evaporative Emission Control System Vent Control Circuit Malfunction

And, it was the same this time.

I'll give this visit Chronologically

0:00-0:15 - They tell me the Code and that they're replacing the CCV Valve

0:15-0:30 - Still throwing the Code - Now two techs are hovering over it.

0:30-0:45 - Three techs. They are now more 'milling' than 'hovering'

0:45-1:00 - Three techs and the Shop Supervisor (also a hybrid tech).

1:00 - Word comes out that they have decided to do a "Smoke Test" to look for leaks.

1:30 - Smoke Test apparently continues except now it's on the rack and the herd (pack, gaggle What do you call a bunch of techs anyway?) is now underneath with many lights.

1:45 - Primary Tech comes looking deep in thought to catch a smoke, and I ask what's up? He says the Fuel System is at atmospheric pressure and it won't go up. He also says something like "In the second stage of the Evap test cycle it's Drawing Vacuum way too fast". I know better than to ask for further explanations, because his diagnostic circuits are clearly overloaded.

2:00 - I receive word that they have "California on the Line"

2:30 - Wandering the lot I see them pull out a 'classic' MR2. I go over to look at it, and notice that the directional tires are pointed the wrong way. The Service Manager wanders by, and I point it out to him. They pull the MR2 back in

3:00 - The Service Writer tracks me down looking sheepish. He says "Now, this is coming from California. They say that your Gas Cap seal isn't good and you need a new Gas Cap" I refrain from mentioning that I had asked about that a couple of times over the course of this adventure. He knows that. They don't have a Gas Cap so they'll order me one.

Ok, so, what odds should I give that this is the problem? Anyone have a clue?

 

Oh, I forgot the Truely Sad Part.

In with the MFD showing 60.7 MPG at 207.4 Miles

Out with the MFD showing 57.3 MPG at 207.7 Miles, AND battery in the pink.

By the time the Battery was happy again, it was down to 56.7. It was only back to 57.2 by the time I got home

 

I think Toyota should put a Spare Gas Cap in every Prius down with the Spare Tire somewhere

So, did I really need a Charcoal Canister and two valves?

Actually, I was kind of hoping they'd have to replace the whole tank. Maybe then I could get in more than 7.5-8 gallons on a fillup

 

Well, they finally got the Gas Cap in and so far no code.

But, it has usually taken about a day before it comes on.

We'll see.

Is there a Prius Gas Cap shortage out there? Should I start hoarding them?

I told my Service Writer that they owed me a Toyota Baseball Cap or something for making me come back so many times.

The most amusing part though, is the ticket on billing. I first brought it in for the problem before 36K. I'm now around 38.6K and they're still working on it. But, since I'm out of the base warrantee, they flagged it as "Goodwill Warrantee" work.

I really don't care how they account for it but it would not have gone well for them if they had tried to not cover it, or get me to pay the Extended Warrantee deductible.

Technically, isn't the Gas Cap part of the Emissions System anyway? Since it's apparently so critical, I'd also argue that it should be covered under the Federal Emissions Warrantee.

So, anyone feel like giving odds on whether this is it?

 

Yes, it's back.

Same as before. About 80 miles and it's on again.

The pool is still open

 

Just went by and had them pull the code and 'ok' me to drive it. The Tech and I agree that it's in both our interests to double check the code each time just to be sure though at this point we both know what it's going to be

446 again, yep.

They're going to open a Ticket with Toyota, and work out an approach this time before I bring it back.

I don't doubt it's something small, and I still suspect it may eventually turn out to be related to the botched filler neck replacement but who knows.

I know they're as frustrated as I am though. Hopefully this time they'll run it to ground.

And yeah, I agree, they should have gone with the Gas Cap first. I told them that first thing

But, I restrained myself from commenting when they did decide to replace it. Just as well seeing as that wasn't the problem.

On the bright side, I'll soon have an entirely new fuel system to go with my new HV battery, eh?

 

Techron is the only additive I'd use.

Update

After talking to Toyota Central, they have decided they need the car to have and to hold until they can figure it out, so I'll go in this afternoon and drop it off and pick up a loaner.

My first reaction is that they're now into the trial and error phase of diagnosis, but hopefully they have a better plan than that.

They are unwilling to give any sort of ETA so I can only hope they give me something reasonable for a rental.

There's always something to be said for the Homer Simpson school of Check Engine Light care. All it takes is a square inch of electrical tape

As an aside, the most annoying thing about this whole episode is that the CEL doesn't dim with the dash lights, and reflects on the Windshield very prominently at night. Not the sort of HUD I would prefer.

Betting pool is still open, but we've now expanded the categories:

1) How long before they claim to have it done?

2) What will they claim was the problem?

3) Will it really be fixed this time?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tumbleweed @ Aug 21 2006, 01:18 PM) [snapback]306765[/snapback]</div>

As I said earlier, I wouldn't be heartbroken if they wound up replacing my early '04 Gas Tank and I could get more than 8 gallons in on a fillup from blinking

 

Update, the good and the bad

Good - They call me every day to give me a progress report

Bad - No progress. They are still baffled.

 

Ok, I went by last night and picked it up.

After 4 days in the shop, and apparently a lot of time on the phone with "California", the current diagnosis is:

The Tether on the Gas Cap was 'interfering' with the seal.

No idea why this happened on both the first and second gas caps. If it was that common you'd think other folks would have seen it.

They also replaced:

PT# 77395-47010 Seal, Fuel Inlet

and

PT# 77397-47010 Plate, Fuel Inlet

So, fixed or not? We'll see by Tuesday I guess.

I have another dilemma now. Because they ran it so much in the bay and on so many test runs, they went through a significant amout of fuel. So, they filled it up.

That's nice, but how do I record this on the Fuel Record. I did make them tell me exactly how many gallons it took, but I'm puzzled how to record that 'tank'. It was essentially full when I took it in and full when I picked it up, but in between there were apparently 3.3 gallons and 50 miles.

Sure isn't going to help my lifetime, eh

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rick57 @ Aug 26 2006, 11:57 PM) [snapback]310002[/snapback]</div>

The last time I was there they spent about 4 hours on the phone with California. this past time, I know the tech spent the better part of 3 days, all day, on the phone with them.