1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Why Toyota is not selling electric cars

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by schja01, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2004
    3,054
    301
    19
    Location:
    Northwest VT
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Which is a problem as far as I am concerned. I was expecting that MORE stores would open in non overpopulated places like Boston and NYC as the cars sold. Instead they are closing some quantity of them.

    No, I am not going to drive 4 hours to Boston to test drive a car and no I am not going to buy a car I've not driven (because my sock drawer doesn't have an extra $40K+) even with a 100% refund guarantee.

    OK, checked, my local options:
    Hyundai Sonata 2008 for $26/day :ROFLMAO:
    Lexus CT 200H 2012 for $49/day
    Nissan Leaf 2017 for $38/day
    Chevy Bolt 2017 for $55/day
    Porsche Cayenne 2005 for $150/day
    Nissan Sentra 2006 for $30/day :ROFLMAO:
    Toyota Prius 2011 $42/day
    Mitsubishi i-miev 2012 $29/day

    Nope, not seeing any Teslas there. I have seen some Teslas around but they are pretty rare. I'm sure they are much more common in big cities.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,144
    50,053
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    no doubt rural areas will be last. like prime
     
  3. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    7,433
    6,916
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    Stores closing = Tesla announcing that they've found, picked & eaten all the low-hanging fruit. Time to open the next chapter in the marketing binder. Hoping it's a good one.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,144
    50,053
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    meanwhile, ford, chrysler and gm are all cutting costs. no big deal though, right? in their cases, it's 'smart'
     
    3PriusMike, Zythryn and Trollbait like this.
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,449
    11,762
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    You didn't read the article. Not only was Musk's statement in response to someone who couldn't test drive a car through store because of agerequirements, but the article had a link to Tesla's page for scheduling a test drive. That page is also the first hit for a search of "tesla test drive" on Google.
    Schedule a Test Drive | Tesla
    With the store closing announcement, they extended the period that a return was possible, and made it the same regardless of having a test drive or not.

    This is the local used dealer, that we have bought from
    Used Cars Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, New Jersey - CarSense - Used Nissan, Honda, Nissan, Ford & More
    They have a 5 day, no hassle return policy. They also will sell a car from their website, and trailer deliver it. Ebay and other sites have been selling cars online for over a decade now. Buyers may have arranged a test drive of the model by some means, but they skipped on test driving, or even inspecting the specific used car they bought.
    Tesla is closing stores.
    However, many of the service centers are also stores. With the numbers of cars they have now sold, they have to expand their service network. In a few years, they may have more stores than before these are closed.
     
    #145 Trollbait, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
    Zythryn and bisco like this.
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,144
    50,053
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    no, no, they're going out of business! aren't you paying attention?(n)
     
  7. Chazz8

    Chazz8 Gadget Lover

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    744
    234
    61
    Location:
    Central New York
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    The Kelly Blue Book Cost To Own figures are from a Media company and looked (to me) a little fishy. Here is an article about them from the past; The Truth About Intellichoice Awards. I also question KBB CTO figures for a the Kia Niro Hybrid and plug-in when it Is so new and doesn’t have good repair/reliability data. Also, surprisingly nothing about CTO for the Prius Prime since 2017 (in the electric car category?), the year it was introduced and would have the least data about some CTO factors.

    I checked out Edmonds online CTO values for 2018 (most recent year for them) and compared to 2018 on KBB site and found the Prius c and Prius hatchback were 3 to 4 thousand less to own on the Edmonds site. Edmonds also explains and brakes down the figures very well.

    I would say that anybody’s personal opinion that (insert car maker here) has lowest CTO is just as valid as intellichoices’s.
     
    #147 Chazz8, Mar 11, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,144
    50,053
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    There are too many variables in tco
     
    triggerhappy007 likes this.
  9. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    6,312
    4,301
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    To report back, Monday I stopped in at a local Tesla combined store & service center.
    They had both a Performance Model 3 and a LR AWD Model 3 available for test drives.

    That said, I do owe you an apology, as the store, for a single day last week, wasn’t offering test drives. I couldn’t believe it, but there it was.
    Luckily, this was quickly remedied.
    Tesla prides itself on being an extremely nimble company. Unfortunately it means sometimes making mistakes. Luckily it also means being able to correct those mistakes in a week, rather than a year, or decade.
     
    3PriusMike and bisco like this.
  10. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    10,985
    8,886
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Reading thread like this makes me wonder how do people get so fixated to particular brand in this case of cars but it can be any products. For me a car is a car, just another tool to be used for transportation. I am careless who makes it as long as it is reliable and affordable AND the product fulfill my needs.

    That said, my last five cars have been either Toyota or Honda, but I will jump ships in a heartbeat if there is a better car at better price.
     
  11. KrPtNk

    KrPtNk Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    323
    283
    0
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    A car is a tool for me as well, but not “just another tool”. I love tools. For me one of life’s pleasures is having and using a well constructed and engineered tool. The longer I have it the greater my affection.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,144
    50,053
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Not sure when this thread swerved from toy to tess,
    But I read they have decided to keep most stores open, and evaluate each one over the next however many months.
    I thought one analyst put it well, stating that they need to be a bit less knee jerk, and a bit more thoughtful in making some serious decisions.
     
  13. KrPtNk

    KrPtNk Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    323
    283
    0
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    If I were thinking of buying a Tesla, I would push pause and let a few months go by. I wouldn’t want to have a car, no matter how delightful, from a company this changeable.
     
    pghyndman and William Redoubt like this.
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,144
    50,053
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I am doing exactly that. But mostly because they don’t have quite what I’m looking for.
    How the company operates is actually quite impressive to me, considering their age, and financial constraints.
    If you weed through the hater articles, there is an awful lot to like.
     
    Nancy S, Zythryn and Trollbait like this.
  15. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    3,028
    2,369
    0
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    In a heartbeat? You wouldn't wait 5 or 8 years until your current car has gotten some significant number of miles on it.

    Mike
     
    bruceha_2000 likes this.
  16. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    10,985
    8,886
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Yeah, average years of my ownership of a car is probably ~5 years. This number includes 4 cars that were leased for only 3 years. The longest I have owned a car is 12 years. In our local, cars do not last longer than that due to rust problem from the road salt. This is true for $15K bare bone subcompact or $50K luxury sedan. I don't plan to switch PRIME yet, but I have seen some people are making money on trading in 2017 PRIME for 2018 PRIME. I might try that if I find a great deal on other cars. If 2018 Clarity was a hatchback, I probably have traded in my PRIME for it.
     
  17. Synthetic

    Synthetic Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2016
    35
    9
    0
    Location:
    El Paso
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    Well. if it hasn't been said yet, Toyota believes in Hybrid-to-Hydrogen. Toyota believes hybrid-to-hydrogen is the best route and all-electric has too many weaknesses. Why? Refueling time on trips. Since hydrogen can be manufactured on-site at refill stations distribution costs will go to zero, hydrogen vehicles do not pollute and actually further clean air while in use, and this results in the better long game: an environment cleaner with performance of electric power and torque, without the battery weight and without long charging cycles... takes about 5 minutes to refuel.
     
  18. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2009
    2,329
    1,812
    18
    Location:
    Chicago western burbs
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    +1 This.

    Tesla/Musk is very schizo lately.
     
    will the engineer likes this.
  19. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Well, OK, but HFC is still very inefficient well-to-wheel (
    ) compared to BEV, and Tesla is now deploying “1000 mile-per-hour” V3 SuperChargers: 100 miles of range added in 6 minutes. VW (Electrify America), Porsche, and probably EVgo (not sure) are at various stages of deploying similar (~350KW) chargers.

    As for me at least, if I had a pure BEV, I expect I’d need to rapid-charge once or twice a year at most.

    Weight-compounding on passenger vehicles is pretty inconsequential, but long-haul trucking might be a good use case for HFC: Weight compounding with batteries on an 18-wheeler is likely to be an issue, as are long recharge times, and the very-high cost of the fuel-cell stack represents a much smaller percentage of the total cost of a truck run of a car.

    Plus, of course, as of right now at least, there are 39 hydrogen filling stations in the US, all in CA, and I probably have that many power outlets in my house alone! Yes, I’m speaking a little facetiously here, but my point being that an extensive refueling network for BEVs, somewhere between marginally and fully adequate already exists, whereas, for now at least, hydrogen filling stations barely exist outside of Japan and California, and really only barely exist there.
     
    #159 mr88cet, Mar 12, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
    ed4271 likes this.
  20. William Redoubt

    William Redoubt Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2016
    1,215
    1,165
    1
    Location:
    Coronado Island, California
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    This is a good comment. I don't need a new car. And I can't really use a BEV. Therefore, I like Toyota and my Prius. However, watching and following Tesla is like watching NASCAR. Lots of action, pit strategy changes as the race goes on, lots of wrecks and just waiting for "the big one" to happen. Desperation moves are the best. Can't look away.
     
    benagi, KrPtNk and mr88cet like this.