Minnesota EV and Hybrid surcharge proposal.

IveI'eatched this topictclose forany years.
Interestinly, Wisconsin lawmakers may have thought they put a fee on hybrids, but they actually didn't.

When reading the laws carefully, you will find they only added the fee for EVs and PHEVs.

And an even funnier note, they put a mechanism in place for collecting the EV fee, but somehow no mechanism for collecting the PHEV fee.

It's been over a year now. We'll see how long before they catch on.

 

Yes I have been fighting this for some years....In Virginia, we got the hybrid tax removed.

Unfortuntately, however, looks like 2018 was bad year and many (red?) states are now pushing through a tax on gasoline hybrids. In most cases fairly modest under $50/yr.

We need to educate lawmakers that there are 3 variations: Hybrids, plug-in hybrids, and BEV's. The latter 2 categories have some merit for extra tax. The auto companies (Toyota etc) have also tried to prevent this tax on Hybrids but some lawmakers are not listening.

We have no lobby for hybrids, and Plug-in America is not helping hybrids. One time I joined PIA in hopes of getting support but no luck.

I can send someone my priors letters to Tennesee and Idaho if it helps. Seems like I helped a little in Tennessee.

 

I would be interested in the letters

[email protected]
Eric Powers

The reality is that hybrids have been politicized.
So taxing hybrids is basically a stand in to sticking it to liberals. And there are plenty of folks who want to do that.

Additionally, most hybrid owners are completely apathetic when it comes to this issue.

I have talked about this for years and noone is really willing to rally the troops to push back against this prior to it being implemented.

Once implemented, they may complain about it, but it still will not spur them to action.

 

Reading through the Redit shows a lot of stupidity, folks who worry about a little BEV driving 5000 miles a year not paying a “fair share” seem to be fine with Taxis, Semis, Forestry equip and cement trucks not paying road tax.

They also falsely believe there is no point in increasing gas taxes because cars are slightly more efficient which is the ultimate in stupidity.
We also like to ignore the fact that even though annual tons of freight shipped across our nation hasn’t really increased much in 30 years, the amount of semi and delivery vehicle traffic has still increased exponentially, perhaps that might be why roads are wearing out faster?
Perhaps the entities causing the wear should pay the upkeep?

The DMV needs about $$$ 5 million in upgrades to properly identify and track the 2000 affected hybrids correctly, that cash was never appropriated, lets hope it never is.


What people don’t understand is that if hybrids are taxed it won’t just be the Prius, newer green-washed cars & trucks with start stop will pay the same tax as they are also hybrids. I’m sure Ram owners will gladly pay the fee.


I would recommend the op place a freedom of information act request to obtain the number of EVs titled in Minnesota for their roads,
even though that state is more progressive than Wisconsin based on previous numbers you still likely have under 10,000 plug ins on your roads which when taxed wastes more money than it collects for roads. Which by the way would only pay for a few miles a year.

Then organize and publicize the number, how many miles of road it would pay for and how Wisconsin’s EV sales plummeted after their “smaller” tax passed.


If MN wants to tax BEVs they should understand how much tax BEVs already pay
Ex.
(identify the percentage of your electric bill that goes to the hidden municipal substation taxes,etc,;
So yes your utilities sometimes pay a large percentage of your fees paid back to the government general fund in a variety of forms)

They should also understand how they might peg EV electric consumption to gas taxes so they are 1:1 , this would be remotely measurable (my Volt reports kwhr consumption back to big brother already)
and make all cars be on a level playing field in terms of energy taxes.
AKA if 33.7kwhrs is equal to a gallon of gas than it’s tax rate should be clear.

 

Wisconsin hybrid owners have heard of this coming for many years, but they have not organized to oppose it.

More fees will likely keep coming until someone takes time to organize opposition.

 

Let’s not exaggerate Evers influence. Doing so makes it more likely he will be a one hit wonder, cause “he isn’t doing anything “ so let’s get him out. Democrats in this state are very divided and easily butt hurt over the smallest thing and use that as a reason to either not vote or to vote for someone wholelly incompetent

Despite Wisconsin being about 2/3 Donkey by population
our government from school boards, town boards on up is a vast sea of red and has been mostly red since the 1980’s

Any time a single blue guy enters the room it enables at least 50 years of complaints about how everything that was already terrible was because of that one guy that just entered office.
A $1 a gallon gas tax increase has been going around the republican assembly and that republican bill was used as a Evers will pass a $1 a gallon gas tax during campaigning. Evers is even being blamed for foxcon failing.

There have been many illegal activities occurring within our state and local governments for many years, making people aware of who and why and the resulting consequences that affect them personally is a futile chore, even our redistricting activities are illegal. Heck we even eliminated the government accountability board so we have zero transparency into claims made by the government.
As a state we never hold those actually responsible accountable.

Getting awareness and people to care is nearly impossible and usually when they do care, they make up some nonsense to do the wrong thing.
Like farmers complaining about poor farm policies and the removal of farmer welfare when the guy they keep voting for had such actions as apart of his public platform .

You would think as a state we would do something different at least once
but nah, let’s complain about it but keep doing exactly the same thing over and over,
then blame folks not yet in office or that died 40 years ago for the mess.

 

Here was my (unsuccessful) letter to Idaho, but in the case of Tennessee the legislator actually sent me an email back thanking me.

Dear Governor Otter-
The issue of fees for hybrid cars in Idaho has come to my attention.
I was active in the repeal of the Virginia Hybrid Fees. Here is my view on it:

First of all, we have to define our terms:

There are 3 classes of electric drive vehicles-
(1) Hybrids (100% gasoline - no tax credits for purchase)
(2) All-Electric Plug-Ins (100% electric - large tax credit for purchase)
(3) Plug-In Hybrids (Gaso+Elec - large tax credit for purchase)

Regarding 100% gasoline fuel hybrids, it is unfair to punish regular Hybrids for extra taxes. For example, as you know, you will end up with 25 MPG hybrids (eg; Highlander Hybrid) being taxed extra, and 25 MPG non-hybrids not being taxed extra.

In Toyota's words, the fuel taxes should be "technology neutral" within the 100% gasoline fuel class. In other words, why charge a hybrid extra, but not charge an aluminum F150 extra? It should be immaterial what's under the hood, as long as the vehicles all fuel up at the same gas station.

If you want to say all higher MPG cars owe more fuel taxes, that's a fair approach (assuming the system is properly designed). A fair system has been suggested in New Hampshire, where there is a proposal to tax all cars over about 25 MPG with an extra fee, prorated by MPG. Basically keeping everyone even on fuel tax. But I assume that might be a difficult argument to make to the public.

As far as electric plug-ins, there is a general consensus that a modest fee is reasonable. That's a different story. Plug-ins are using alternate fuel and it is fair to ask them to contribute to avoided road taxes. I am not a plug-in owner, but if present, they would ask for the courtesy of lower fees for the short term to help get the new technology started.

In Virginia we do charge a modest fee to Plug-Ins. Our ill-designed hybrid fee was revoked after 1-year.
As far as I know, Idaho is only U.S. state with a fee for 100% gasoline hybrids.

Regards, Bill in Virginia

 

Most states have a VADA equivalent (Virginia Automobile Dealer Assoc.) and often times if the state in enacting hybrid fees, it means they did not consult with the ADA to see if they agreed with it.

So one approach is to call up to find the Toyota person on the ADA, in the case of Virginia it was Koons Tysons Corner VP on the committee, and they can work it from politics side.

 

Yup last I knew...but I am thinking several more states also started in 2016 and 2017, and maybe another 4 or 5 last year 2018, including SC

 

Anyone have an updated version of this 2018 map?

The original Wisconsin “Prius tax” from 2008 would have included

Start stop
Hybrids
CNG/“Alternative fuels”

Thankfully it was killed by the economic downturn and a change in governors who had something to prove
which made any tax increase (even one for electric) too unpopular to pass.

Sadly the lifetime politicians pushing it didn’t go away and used their first opportunity to pass a portion of the tax.

 

I hate the idea of being surcharged on my PRIME, but at the same time if money has to be raised to cover the cost of road maintenance, I am willing to pay equitable share. That said, the best way to do this is not to surcharge EV and PHEV or any other fuel efficient vehicles, but change the collection mechanism all together based on miles driven for each car. I would think yearly registration fee when you must report the odometer reading is the best opportunity to collect additional fees based on the miles driven.

 

Yes that map (perhaps you posted it a few weeks ago or someone else did) was the first clue I have that so many states have started taxing hybrid HEV's.

I couldn't believe it, but I checked on SC and it seemed to be correct. I knew ID and MI but I did not realize the flood gates had opened on taxing hybrids..

 

Here is UTAH:
Advocates fume as new fee on clean fuel vehicles in Utah kicks in Jan. 1 | Deseret News

well $10 gets to be minimal, but if the purpose is fuel tax replacement, it is discrimination since we are just using gasoline like everybody else, in some cases like a RAV4 you are not getting unsual high MPG, so why should a RAV4 hybrid owner be charged $110 extra over the life of the car versus RAV4 gasser?...That's smaller but some states like ID are $75 so it gets to $800 or so addon, and you are already paying $4000 or so for the hybrid version.

PS- Really what we need is a federal policy, if you want to get get your road funds from the Uncle Sam, though shalt not discriminate against certain models of cars if they all use the same fuel. If it's alternate fuel vehcile then some fee is warranted but there should be some guidelines there too.

 

The trouble is that people have no motivation to own a fuel efficient vehicle if you tax all consumer vehicles by weight and miles. Such a law would mean only suburbans, full size vans and pickups would be on the road. Cars would cease to exist because they would cost too much to operate.

The former proposals offered on this front have made it so driving my 60 mpg Honda Insight is basically the same cost per mile as an F150 or more than a 25mpg Miata. Why own such a car when the fee costs more than the fuel?

In reality we need to do the opposite and tax the living $*** out of trucks and gas guzzlers and reduce taxes to almost nill on very small or very efficient cars following a bell curve, the only way to approximate this would likely be a gas tax increase plus an annual economy/miles surcharge . Trouble is unless you get the economy charge up front it will likely not get paid, leading to collections issues.

Otherwise why would anyone own an EV or a small car if the price per mile is the same?

And yes cradle to grave the good of society would be served better by more little cars like smart cars and more EVs.
Larger vehicles drive a lot more cost of infrastructure, more traffic jams, more cement parking, More sunk resources up front, more pollution, more collision damage and many costs born by society that small cars (regardless of their weight ) don’t drive.

If we’re going to change the game we need to be wholistic and change things so we can start reducing infrastructure costs as well. Not to mention motivate people to own different vehicles, ongoing costs of operation can do a pretty good job thinking back to $4+ Per gallon gas prices.

There are too many hidden costs of everyone plugging up infrastructure with land yachts