2 New Tires Installation

So how much did each tire cost you?

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YES! On all cars (FWD/RWD/AWD).

There is ample data and sound testing from the major tire manufactures that shows when installing only 2 tires, the new tires MUST go to the rear on all vehicles. B/C of this testing and recommendation, tires stores follow this recommendation b/c: 1) science, 2) avoid lawsuits.

Both vehicles in the video appear to be a Ford Tarus (FWD) vehicles. Accept the PROVEN fact, that when replacing only two tires, the new tires go to the rear for all vehicles (FWD/RWD/AWD).

Why do you not get snow tires?

Since you are adamant about putting the new tires on the front, you will have to rotate them yourself.

 

That is your loss. If you like vino, they have some nice years and higher end bottles for cheap!

WrongMart owns Sam's club, so that is probably why you don't see an significant difference.

1) Few places can beat Costco on tire price. Yes, Costco has a limited selection of tires, but for the average person, its sufficient.
2) No one touches Costco on installation! $15/tire (no TPMS) or $18/tire (TPMS) and it includes all this:

• mount, old tire disposal, lifetime balance, lifetime rotation, rubber valve stem, road hazard warranty
• Vehicles w/ TPMS require a rebuild kit at $3/TPMS; so a TPMS vehciles = $18/tire.
• road hazad warranty = free puncture repair (if repairable) or prorated replacement cost if tire is not repairable or destroyed due to road debris/etc.

3) But Wait! It gets even crazier cheaper!

Costco seems to have 3 types of regular sales that alternate between these three (I like #3).

1. $70 off a set of 4 tires (one month Bridgestone, next month Michelin)
2. $70 off a set of 4 tires (one month Bridgestone, next month Michelin) with $60 Costco Cash Card mailed to you months when paid with your Costco Visa. Essentially installation is free.
   
3. $70 off a set of 4 tires (one month Bridgestone, next month Michelin) + $0.01/tire installation charge! If you have TPMS it will be $3.01/tire! CRAZY (insert adjective) CHEAP! Remember, installation = mount, old tire disposal, lifetime balance, lifetime rotation, road hazard warranty, rubber valve stem.

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As you can see, you get a lot more for less money at Costco!

 

Not much loss for me, but thanks for nice advertisement. The closest Costco is over 400 miles away from my house. In fact that closest one is not even in the US. LOL. Without knowing actual price at Costco, it may be speculative, but as far as of tires (and probably of wines too) are concerned, the price are not much different in any of discount warehouse club or online. Yeah, $1 installation is nice, but my local tire shop have basic installation at $8/tire. Even including valves and TPMS and road hazards, it is still comparable to Costco's regular cost of $15-$18 range. But sometimes, a good relationship with local shops pays for itself in sales and services. My last purchase of 4 Michelin Xice snow tires at local tire shop a few years ago on Black Friday sale ended up less than $200 for all four tires installed and includes free road huzzards and free rotation/winter change over for the life of tires.

 

You clearly live in an area that is not geographically desirable by Costco/Sams. They set-up in major urban/suburban areas w/ dense populations.

You are established on where/how to get tires and installation as cheap as possible. If a Costco was nearby, this would change.

One cent installation, not One Dollar seems to be the regular running trend Costco has. But this matters not for you as Costco is not an option due to remoteness.

 

I don't understand the problem here.
I can understand the "frustration" if you asked to have the two new tires put on the front, and find them on the back. BUT...once you discover this is not a regulation BUT....the accepted best, safest practice?
Plus if...

But....

Then what is the issue with just living with the two new tires on the rear, (Which we now know is the best practice) for 14 days, when you will then have new tires all around?

To me, nothing to be upset about here, except that your specific instructions weren't originally followed, and discovering that Costco was correct in choosing the rear for the two new tires.

I mean, why would you want to have the rear tires rotated to the front, once you learn the rear is the best choice? And why would it matter even if you don't believe it,- if your going to have 4 new tires in less than 2 weeks?

Personally, I think there is ample evidence that IF only replacing a set of two, the rear is the safest choice.
I don't know if it is a law, regulation, or shop protocol, but I'd suspect any and all tire shops would be hesitant if not totally refuse to NOT install sets of two on the rear axle.

If you spun out, and had an accident, I'm afraid they would be worried about being held accountable for not following the accepted safest practice.

Having said that? If the OP asked to have the new tires put on the front, it should of been thoroughly explained to the OP why that isn't the best choice, and why Costco was apt to NOT do that, before tire installation was even begun.

Tire Installation, might be one of those few exceptions where the customer is NOT always right.
But I'm not faulting Costco here.

 

Ah, finding the origion of the scam....



We had to get two tires recently, after the Civic got a flat. Naturally, we wanted the new tires on the front. That's where steering and braking happens, as well as the drive wheels and most of the car's weight ... so that's where we wanted the newer tires.

The shop (America's Tire) refused. They said it's a company policy that a new pair of tires must always go on the rear.

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They've even printed up glossy signs explaining their reasoning -- a fancy poster image that is, unfortunately, wrong.

They show two scenarios. In the one on the left, the rear tires are losing traction, and the rear end of the car is sliding out. That's called "oversteer". The car might spin, especially if the driver has never experienced it before.

That part's all true. The problem with their diagram is the scenario on the right, where the presumably better tires are on the rear. In their diagram, magically all four tires are holding -- nothing ever loses traction. Good deal!

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But what really happens if you put the bad tires on the front is that if something slips, it'll be the front. That's called "understeer".

Understeer can be just as dangerous as oversteer. With practice (I recommend autocross!) a driver can learn to detect oversteer and steer out of it before it gets to be a problem. There's an old saying among racers and performance drivers: "Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. Understeer is when the driver is scared."

Most passenger cars, especially front-wheel-drive cars like our Civic, are designed to understeer severely to begin with. Putting the poorer tires on the front makes that even worse.

And don't forget the importance of braking. Most of a car's braking ability comes from the front tires. Don't you want your best rubber working for you in a panic stop?

While I do understand why the default might be to put new tires on the rear -- it's better for inexperienced or panicky drivers -- to insist on it in all cases is just silly.

We drove the Civic home and rotated the tires ourselves.

How did the policy get started?
Dave and I first encountered this policy a couple of years ago. In the intervening years, it's become pervasive -- just about every tire shop insists on it now. How did that happen?

If you ask at the tire shop, they may tell you that it's a federal policy -- DOT or some such agency -- or even that it's a state law. Neither is true. It's merely company policy.

Some will also tell you that it arose from a lawsuit in which a tire company was sued after a customer spun out. So two years ago, we went looking to see if that was really true.

Back then, googling either "oversteer" or "understeer" led inexorably to a Wikipedia page with a reference to "San Luis Obispo County Court Case CV078853". Unfortunately, Wikipedia's link next to the court case reference actually led to a general page for a law firm that appears to specialize in vehicular personal injury lawsuits. (Nice advertising, that.) There was no information about any such case.

Nor did there seem to be any official records online of such a case; and the SLO courthouse didn't respond to an email request for more information.

Googling the court case, though, got lots of hits -- nearly all of them pasted verbatim from the Wikipedia page, then using that as "proof" of the supposed safety argument.

The test of time
Now, a few years later, it seems that nearly all tire manufacturers have adopted this as a firm, non-negotiable policy. Some shops are even using it as a reason to refuse to rotate tires! (See, the front tires wear faster on most cars, so if you rotate tires between front and rear, now you're putting the more worn tires on the rear ... which is dangerous! Better to just let those front tires wear out and make the customer buy a new pair.)

The news is better on the Wikipedia end. Someone eventually heeded Dave's attempt to fix the Wikipedia page, removed the bogus advertising link to the ambulance-chasing law firm, and added "citation needed". Subsequently, several people rewrote the page in stages, with comments like "This is a complete replacement. The existing version was wrong from the 1st sentence and has little relationship to the standard terminology." The page is much better now.

What isn't better is that the sentence from the old Wikipedia page is still all over the net, word for word. Google for the court case and you'll find lots of examples. Many of them are content mills copying random Wikipedia content onto pages that bear no relation to cars at all. But unfortunately, you'll also find lots of cases of people using this phantom court case to argue the safety point.

Sadly, it seems that once something gets onto Wikipedia, it becomes part of the zeitgeist forever ... and however wrong it might be, you'll never be able to convince people of that.

 

Shortcut through this Gordian Knot: replace all four tires.

 

Vocabulary expanded for the day.

 

See: elementary school ancient history class was useful.

 

You can remember that far back?

I can barely remember what I had for breakfast yesterday .

But I can always pack more in.

 

I never learned the word Gordian Knot in elementary school. Or did I???

 

We got shoveled so much useless dreck, and I've forgotten 90% of it. It can come in handy in crosswords.

 

You went to elementary school with Alexander the Great?
I don't remember you there.