Featured Open Letter To Toyota USA: Go All In On The Prius Prime, Kill The Regular Prius Hybrid

The design is stunning in a bad way with that big black grille...

 

not much of a corolla fan, but i do like the hatchback

 

A Toyota EV in the 2020 time frame given the size of their new battery commitment?

I think Toyota has too many models now (as do many other manufacturers) I'm reminded of the salesguy who always said if only I had this I could sell. When asked if he'd make a commitment to a certain volume and put his commission on the line, well thats different.

But different cars sell in different markets. Small size matters in urban on-street parking environments especially in cities built in the horse drawn carriage days. Plug-ins of all forms make sense in suburban neighborhoods but not so much again in older urban ones with no weatherproof access to plugs.

 

One observation: Other car makers and magazine editors (one hesitates to call them journalists) have been touting "Prius Killers" for decades.

With the possible exception of the Volt (which GM tried like mad not to admit was a hybrid) none of them made a blip on the Prius sales picture. Sub $2 gas did, but not 'Prius Killers'.

So other manufactures (and their captive editors) would like to put hybrids behind them and try to compete against a different car. There is no point to abandon being the best.

Prime is holding down 'excellent cheap PHEV' but some folks think they should abandon that. I question their motives.

Could there be a Prime LR, (Long Range) sure but you are either going to give up cargo room or seats. A RAV 4 PHEV is going to give up 20 mpgE.

Selling NiMH AWD Prius captures a market LiIon will not be good at. The Prime can be a wonderful low cost PHEV, give it a generation.

 

As has already been stated, a Prime LR could use the space left vacant by the missing spare tire.

I believe the PiP people expected a "wonderful low cost PHEV" for the next generation and got the Prime!

 

And the improvement is massive, I do not expect it to get THAT much better.

 

Maybe not the best example?

Crown Victoria sedan / Country Squire wagon
Grand Marquis sedan / Colony Park wagon
Caprice sedan / Kingswood Estate wagon
Charger sedan / Magnum wagon
Camry sedan / Venza wagon
Legacy sedan / Outback wagon

 

You are too young to remember the Camry wagon, apparently

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I thought the Venza was larger than the Camry, perhaps more like the Avalon. Notice the Venza is dead though.
The Charger & Magnum names, along with the Cordoba, were sedan siblings before the names were reused.

 

"Without compromise" is the operative phrase? There will always be compromise, when you're at least doubling the battery volume, and increasing weight. I'm sceptical they'll reinstate the spare in a plug-in, currently they can't even manage 5 seats, and they've severely cut hatch space and all-round storage, comparing to third gen.

We're lucky to put 500~600 kms a month on our 2010, gas expenditures around $30 a month. To go to a plug-in would be recouping crumbs, not that interested. Plus the extra hassles of plugging in, the on-the-road decisions, when to use the electric mode, all this turns me off.

I'd be happy if they reinstated the Matrix, put in a tried-and-true Hybrid Synergy Drive system, keep the dash simple, with ergonomic controls.

 

We-re getting closer with the 2020 Corolla Hybrid. Perhaps it will eventually make it to the hatchback.

 

Only if it extends out of China.

The new Panasonic and Toyota partnerships starts in 2020; don't expect something until after that.

Toyota is reducing the number of models in Europe with the introduction of the Corolla.

At least for me, that is where the criticism stems from. The Prime is Toyota's second gen PHEV, and it has the first gen faults of the Volt and C-max Energi.

Europe is getting a hybrid of the Corolla wagon. The hatchback has a shorter wheelbase than the sedan and wagon, though. Which could make a hybrid less likely.

 

That's misleading. PiP was a mid-cycle update, not a full generation.

Prime avoided some faults too. So on the whole, it's ahead.

 

The Volt uses the same platform as the Cruze. They were just willing to make the necessary changes to accommodate the battery.

The PHEV does lose 3.5 cu.ft. of cargo space, half that of the Prime to Prius, and I don't think the loss is has intrusive. The Electric has as much space as the PHEV.

Someone should let Toyota marketing know.

The Prime is an upgrade to the gen4 Prius.
The PiP is an upgrade to the gen3 Prius. Just because it came to market longer after the gen3 intro than the Prime did after the gen4 doesn't make it not a full generation. Saying it is not full leaves it open to be calling half assed.

However you call the PiP, it was Toyota's first try at a PHEV in the market. As their second try, the Prime should incorporate what they learned from the PiP, and what they learned from others in the segment. They didn't. PiP owners here liked that it didn't compromise the utility of the Prius. They were hoping to keep that with better EV range and performance. Many likely did expect some compromise considering the announced EV range, but the first photos of cargo area were shocking for those hoping for a better PiP.

 

I thought that was the whole idea behind TNGA.

 

There's always a tradeoff of some sort. In this case, we got more power and electric heating.

Only so much can be delivered each upgrade.

 

That would be a heck of a good car. I enjoyed every Matrix I rented through the years, and several of my friends still have theirs. Used ones are still fought over today.

 

sounds like the consensus is that none of the things in her letter are plausible, or even worthwhile