Why does the Gen3 hybrid battery fail more than in the Gen2?

That's completely ridiculous.

 

Brian,

This is becoming a thread that should be left to the experts that do not actually work on batteries. Real first hand experiences just get in the way of what they already know.

Brad

 

Wow.
I have been closely following HV batt fails on Prius Chat for 5 or 6 yrs including conducting several surveys on Gen2 fails.
I am here to tell you we have very few Gen3 batt fails in the USA, on Prius Chat, versus an "avalanche" of Gen2 batt fails.

Yes Grumpie Cabbie was in reference to European Cabbie Gen3 problems, but he was quite convinced it was different build than the USA Gen3 build, re: some of the hybrid components.

Gen3 is easier on the batt in at least 2 or 3 ways: (1) batt does not run down to zero charge upon empty gaso tank, (2) more powerful engine, (3) better resistance (filter) to dirt in the fan.

EricBecky confirms they are not seeing many Gen3's in their refurb business.

I agree it would be nice to have data from Toyota, but I am not seeing any trends here in Prius Chat. The implication of less battery fails is less click-on new member traffic on Prius Chat (as Gen2 batt fails was, for a while, a major topic). And also less business for the rebuilders.

Keep in mind, Prius sales numbers started going through the roof in 2007-2011. So if the failure continued like 2004-2006, we'd have a huge number of batt replacements coming down the pike, which does not seem to me to be happening. Rather we seem to be hearing less and less.

 

Maybe that came in at the mid-cycle refresh (is that the euphemism?); our 2010 had squat for filter. I put in one that looks about the same as the Toyota filter I've seen pics of: used window screen as a "filter", with about 1/16" square opening wire grid.

 

I guess I will put a stop to my battery refurb and replace business plan. Maybe a dog poop scooping business has a better chance.

 

i'm finally seeing the light. zero 2004 batteries failed until at least 2013. right. got it.

 

The Gen III sold more than the Gen II. And everything breaks eventually.

But the comment that the failed Gen III batteries are 6 years old and the failed Gen II batteries are 7-9 years old was just plain stupid.

 

not if you're part of the battery intelligentsia.

 

That's Matt's data from Texas. Since he already posted it in another thread I felt OK with sharing it here. As Matt said just four Gen 3 battery replacements may not seem like a big deal until you realize he has not seen a single 08 or 09 failure. I also know he saw few to no 07 failures until 2016. So in Texas Gen 3 batteries are failing faster than 08 and 09 Gen 2 batteries.

My personal data comes from just two 2010 batteries tested in the summer of 2016. They both came from wrecked cars with under 50K miles. Testing showed they each had two modules that had already begun to fail. What should have been uber packs tested the same as packs twice as old with three times the miles. Those two packs ended my plans for offering Gen 2 packs rebuilt with Gen 3 modules.

The sample sizes are small and we are still at the start of the bell curve. The early data does not look good for Gen 3 batteries.

Brad

 

Let me try again:
"The failed Gen III batteries were six years old, but the failed Gen II batteries were 7-9 years."

There are no six year-old Gen II's, and there are no 7-9 year-old Gen III's. Amazing discovery!

 

what does 'kids dropping stuff on the floor and completely clogging the cooling system' look like?

 

Here's the thing. You tested batteries in two cars that were out of service (for who knows how long) using who knows what methodology to arrive at a conclusion that each had "two modules that already begun to fail." What this means is completely unknown. Did the "failures" have anything in common? What does, "under 50,000 miles," mean? Two? or 49,999.9? What are your qualifications?

Matt, it is reported, has not seen a single 08 or 09 failure. He also saw, "no 07 failures in 2016." Again, this is all meaningless. You don't quote or link to the post for us to examine. Well, here is what Matt said in this thread:

"Based on my experience the age of your car is the biggest factor when it comes to battery failures. 75% of the batteries that I replaced last year were in 2007 Prius with mileage anywhere between 100,000 and 220,000 miles. I still get the 2006's regularly and occasionally an 05 or 04. Never anything newer than that. I think your safe for at least 2-3 years.
​

Is this the same "Matt from Texas?" I mean, Texas is a hell of a huge place, with a lot of variability in climate and probably more than one guy named Matt who works on Prius autos. Does this dude service cars from border to border? Does he have his finger on the pulse of all Prius' in the whole state?

There is so much wrong with the logic in this thread that it is not possible for me to reply in a cogent fashion given the time I want to commit to the effort. The fact is, Prius batteries overall have spectacular life spans and serviceability. They are trustworthy and a miracle of engineering design. However, your mileage may vary.

Heck, say your Pruis battery failed at 150,001 miles (just out of warranty) and it cost $3500 to replace. That is 2.3 cents per mile. You have saved at least that in increased mileage brought to you by .... (drum roll, please) ... the battery in cooperation with the Synergy Drive.

 

Based on an analysis I did of self-reported publically available data on Prius repairs from True Delta, it appears Gen 1 models have battery failure rates up to 10%, Gen 2 models up to model year 2007 have failure rates up to 3%, and only 1 total battery failure (on a 2012 model) was reported for cumulative model years 2008 to present.

It seems clear to me that there is a noticeably higher failure rate of Gen 1 batteries compared to Gen 2 batteries, which can be explained by the different battery packs. The abrupt drop in battery failures between the 2007 & 2008 model years is also notable, although it could be caused by many different factors. As there was only 1 battery failure listed on True Delta for a Gen 3 Prius, it's impossible to generalize data about differences between Gen 2 & Gen 3 battery failure rates at this time.

 

Amazing is right!!! So my Gen3 is not 7-9 years old?
May 2009 - 2017.

My hybrid battery is also just fine and dandy, BTW.

 

I see what you did there.....


iPhone ?

 

He posted it in 2016.

 

My battery failed yesterday. 150k only. Prius 3 12/2009. Unfortunately no guarantee. Have to pay 2500€

 

Sorry to hear. We do not have official records, but to my thinking we have had very few 2009 Gen2 batt fails reported so far in USA. EU may be different situation as the build quality is not necessary the same as USA. I am not sure if Greece 2009 is Gen2 or Gen3

 

It's 3

 

i think we have a greek taxi complaining about gen 3 battery