EGR circuit cleaning in Austin, TX area

just show them the nutzaboutbolts youtube video and ask them how much. they don't care if it needs it, and you don't care that they don't care. they are in business to make money.

 

Just in case it was other videos you watched, see @NutzAboutBolts videos numbers 17, 24 and 25 in particular, here:

Nutz About Bolts Prius Maintenance Videos | PriusChat

I believe there's one or two more he references at the commence of videos, for more parts removal.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, there's next to no reasonably priced, knowledgable professional help available. Which is a bit of a sand-pounder. There's a priuschat member in northern California, @Raytheeagle , who's basically John the Baptist of EGR issues, but that's a little far afield.

Have you done any basics, say an oil change for example?

Hopefully someone can help you out, good luck with it.

 

John the Baptist .

To the OP: I can ask an old friend who resides in Austin what shops he knows of (he’s lived there going on 12 years now).

He has a Leaf and Subaru, you can guarantee the Subie has needed some love over the years.

The job itself isn’t bad, just a bit fiddly and takes on the order of 8 hours the first time you do it.

But the job is well worth the effort to do IMO.

 

It took me about a weekend, bumbling around, trying various cleaning methods. I have a (residential) garage with slab, floor jack and safety stands, pretty full assortment of hand tools. Cost pretty much nothing, no gaskets replaced. I did use one can of BrakeKleen, and a fair bit of powdered Oxi-Clean in solution, for soaking both the EGR cooler (which is 100% stainless steel, ok with the Oxi) and the intake manifold.

A good thread to read through:

EGR & Intake Manifold Clean Results | PriusChat

 

I'll be the contrarian here. Why is there such a disconnect between what you read on the internet and what your local repair guys told you? Here is what I believe: two kinds of people come to forums like this. One are people who have encountered problems with their vehicle. The other are dedicated enthusiasts who are committed to the best possible care of their vehicles. Who doesn't come to forums? People who just drive their vehicles and are not having problems.

My conclusion is that forums overstate the frequency/likelihood of problems like this. Is there a risk? Absolutely. Is there a certainty of EGR and/or head gasket problems? I don't believe so.

There are many stories of Gen 3 Priuses that have gone 300,00 miles or more with only routine maintenance, often taxis. What they have in common is being driven hard with lots of miles per year. Both the hybrid batteries and the ICE seem to like that.

I have total respect for Ray, Mendal and others on this forum who take such good care of their vehicles. I also understand doing preventative maintenance for peace of mind. I will be the guinea pig with my 2010 with 93,000 miles. I'll report back with any problems or milestones.

 

Something anybody can do, so they're not in the dark concerning their EGR status, is check the pipe.

This is a stainless steel tube between the intake manifold and the EGR valve. If you got a ratchet wrench with a few extensions (say a 6" and 3"), a 10 mm box wrench, a 10 mm socket (maybe a 12 mm socket too, just for insurance), you can get this pipe out, takes about 1/2 hour, have a look at it's interior, and have some idea what the rest of the EGR system is like.

Getting that pipe out is shown in video #16 in the first link I posted, up the page.

 

EBATX,
I too went down the rabbit hole of EGR cleaning on this forum after I became a Gen3 owner for the second time.
I too was looking for a 'Hybrid Speciality Shop' to perform this work, I even went out of state to find a reputable shop.

The problem is 'what are the symptoms and consequences' of this "Choked Down EGR System"?

I asked this repeatedly on this long thread starting at post #67, : Oil Analysis, Redline D6 ATF 30k miles | Page 4 | PriusChat
It seems there is no data backed answer.
Try to get through that thread for a background on this subject before spending money on unnecessary maintenance. (Has your ATF ever been changed? That is necessary! )

So, I asked a shop that I found in a related thread for a quote on having this service done. I got permission to post the reply below:

Bill,

Long story short, we don’t recommend proactively cleaning or replacing the EGR cooler, EGR valve or intake nor updating the ECM software unless it is symptomatic of a failure of these system.

You’ll have a pretty obvious CEL code for the EGR and/or a cold soak rattle. It isn’t worth your time or money on the small chance you have issue crop up, as the repair for the issue is the same as preventing it (which is unlikely to happen overall).

The majority of the vehicles that experience the concern are burning oil at high mileage. With routine 5,000 mile oil changes (not 10,000) using a Dexos rated 0w20 synthetic oil you’re less likely to have the concern. The occasional spirited acceleration seems to help prevent moisture and oil vapor pooling in the intake. For that I only have anecdotal evidence, but it seems to help.

Replacing the intake, EGR valve, cleaning the EGR cooler runs around $1300 plus tax using all Toyota Genuine parts, with the most updated parts as available, including spark plug replacement to the updated plugs. There is a considerable amount of labor to get everything apart.

We do not install oil catch cans - OEM repairs only. Sorry on that one.

I’d encourage a DIYer to make the preventative repairs themselves as they are saving a ton of time in repair labor, but I have a hard time selling a guest $1300 in work that is designed to prevent an issue they might not have. Doubly so when preventing it costs the same as fixing it.
Cheers,
John
Owner, carspecmn.com

 

This is your best bet. They can't spend the time it will take to clean your existing EGR Cooler -- it's too labor intensive, and at their shop rate, you'd be better off buying a new one.
So the smart thing to do is to buy a used one, clean it yourself, and supply it to the shop and say, "Please replace this, and give me the old one back." That way you can clean it and either keep it for your next go-round, or sell it to another member here.

 

it does seem that not everyone gets the failure, so there is more than one variable. who knows? maybe it's gas quality, oil burning, ambient temp, driving cycle, etc. it would be very instructive to PM the members with the knocking due to plugged up EGR to figure out what they have in common.
on the other hand, we do know the gen 3 prius EGR circuit was not perfect, as toyota reworked it in the 4th gen.

 

I've certainly not read every single post re: EGR disassembling and cleaning, so I could be wrong... but I don't recall anyone with significant miles (100K) having disassembled the EGR system to find that it wasn't at least in desperate need of cleaning -- and in most cases severely plugged.

 

I posit that the 'Cold Start Knocking' is due to a water/oil emulsion pooling in the intake from the previous usage.
It is 'Hydraulic Locking'.

I had it happen once during the 1.5 yrs I owned a Gen3 in '13. It was after putzing around a humid cool town the night before, never allowing the car to warm up all the way.
I think how a car is used has a lot to do with Cold Start Knocking and the conditions where it is operated.

If you are claiming 'knocking' (aka detonation) is happening while warmed up and running, well, that should never happen due to a 'Knock Detector' being part of the ECU inputs.

 

no, Bill, the cold start knock is a completely different problem. plugged EGR results in low RPM/high load knock. plenty posted about it here, come out from your agitated denial please.

this is one of the original threads on this issue: Prius III engine knocking at high torque low RPM (solved) | PriusChat

Bill, you even contributed to that back on 2013. memory not worky lately?

 

Join the club.

 

Jeez, Jack, Why so Black?

Yes, JB, I've said many times Cold Start Knocking is a different problem.

That old thread you referenced was about a guy that found a 'rogue' block off plate in the EGR circuit of his newly bought used Prius. It had a performance issue.
Plus it looks like that particular engine was producing lots of oiliness in the EGR. Did he discuss 'Oil Consumption'?

I'm just asking if there is proof that a NORMAL choked down EGR circuit = Head Gasket Failure.
You guys can make it squeaky clean and it will be dirty again in a few thousand miles.

I'm just trying to be the voice of reason on this subject,,, that some really embrace,, to the point of posting agitated replies...

I work with Data Gathering on very high tech vehicles. I want data.
I maintain doing all this work on an engine that has no signs of performance issues is....... Well,,,,,
it sounds like it's fun for some of you guys!

 

I can tell you about my experience on the egr circuit, at close to 100k miles I cleaned the pipe only and found it was about half way plugged up with carbon. Since it wasn't completely plugged up, I figured the cooler cleaning can wait a little longer.

Today I clean the cooler out at 115k miles. I found the job not as complicated as I had anticipated. Removing the hoses gave me the biggest challenge as they were stuck on pretty tight and there wasn't much room for my hands to work. The removal of all the nuts and bolts were fairly straight forward.

The cooler itself was dirty but not really plugged. The pipe the area that had the most carbon buildup. I used 3 cans of brake cleaner and still didn't get it completely cleaned. I then used pressurized water from a plant watering device and that cleaned it out pretty well.

It took close to 5 hours but I wasn't exactly rushed. I think if I really tried, I can do it in 2-3 hours. Removing the windshield wipers/cowling may not be a necessity either.

If I had to do it again on a different car, I probably would clean the pipe only every 50000 miles and not really worry about the cooler until 150000+ miles.

 

Nice work, JC. Has the intake manifold been addressed?... My experience with my 2010 was that the IM small ports were fully blocked at 97k miles. The car was "shuddering" at light throttle, gas engine on acceleration, speed mid-teens thru mid-20s or so mph. It wasn't full-on knocking yet, more felt like the road had a fine, washboard pattern to the pavement. Cleaning the IM remedied this and the cooler was never pulled until 142k miles, at which point it was still only ~75 percent blocked.

The car was still a zero oil burner when murdered at 150k, leading me to theorize non-burners foul the IM end of the circuit firstly and burners really muck up the cooler end. I'm not saying this IS the way it is, just noting personal experience.

 

I'm going to tackle the intake manifold once my poor lower back recovers from the pain I experienced yesterday lol. That might be next week's project (I'll have another 4 days off).

 

Hey you could always rotate the tires while you recuperate.