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SUDDEN UNINTENDED ACCELERATION (SUA)

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by subjective, Oct 25, 2018.

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  1. subjective

    subjective Member

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    It is now 7 weeks since the incident and we have still heard nothing from Toyota for a solution and when I call Toyota customer service their response is ignorance. In the meantime there is a statement in general that they are working on a recall to fix the "Loss of Power" problem. At this time all I have is a worthless 2011 Prius in which my Toyota dealership body shop can not and will not repair it without a solution and assistance from Toyota for a safe repair.
     
    #81 subjective, Nov 29, 2018
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the problem is even bigger than you may realize, there are several relevant threads here

    sounds like you're getting the runaround to me
     
    #82 bisco, Nov 29, 2018
  3. Johnny Cakes

    Johnny Cakes Senior Member

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    I think its pretty obvious Toyota is going to say "driver error." You can wait for this foregone conclusion and take your next step or plan for that step now.
     
    #83 Johnny Cakes, Nov 30, 2018
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  4. subjective

    subjective Member

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    THE TOYOTA report "BLOVIATION" arrived from Toyota Motor North America today. 12/1/2018. They brought attention to the aftermarket (Weathertech) floor mat. I imagine Weathertech will have something to say about Toyota mentioning this fact as if it could have something to do with the accident. They also mentioned the titanium Rally performance wide brake pedal in the same negative mention. They state that the accelerator pedal was depressed and that there was no brake application prior to the impact. BUT in the GreenJuice report in attempting to duplicate his anomaly the accelerator pedal actually went down without any action from him and the car responded as when in the cruise control RESUME mode repeatedly. I observed during my wife's incident that she had her foot on the wide performance RALLY BRAKE PEDAL, not the accelerator and there was an odd display on the operation screen which I believe was for "in HYBRID" mode as with the GreenJuice explanation. I consider this report from Toyota, which was expected, to be BULL TUMMY ROT!
     
    #84 subjective, Dec 1, 2018
  5. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Is this report based in part on the 'black box' or other internal recordings, or solely other findings?

    Did they provide a readout of such recordings to you?
     
    #85 fuzzy1, Dec 1, 2018
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    only the black box would tell them the accelerator pedal was depressed, and there was no application of the brake pedal.

    looks like you'll have to sue, but it might be tough coming up with evidence, idk.

    application of aftermarket parts can be problematic
     
    #86 bisco, Dec 1, 2018
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  7. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    In the James Sikes fraudulent SUA case, there was much more evidence recorded within the car than just the few seconds of required EDR 'black box' information. I'm recalling that Toyota revealed how many times he pressed and released the brake during that event.

    Here is one of many threads, to help kickstart any searches: What happened to James A Sikes - the Runaway Prius? | PriusChat
     
    #87 fuzzy1, Dec 1, 2018
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  8. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    New to this thread, but right off the bat...
    There is no mechanical means for this car to 'move the accelerator pedal'. There is no servo in it. It is only a position sensor on a pedal with a return spring.
    When using the Prius cruise control the accelerator pedal just sits there at its spring stop..

    wth hell is 'GreenJuice report' and who do they work for and get paid from?
     
    #88 Bill Norton, Dec 1, 2018
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  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    As Bill Norton already pointed out, that can't happen, so whatever "the Greenjuice report" is, that takes it out of the running as a credible source.

    In the case of a failure mode such as the Barr Group identified in the Bookout case, that would be unsurprising, because those could have been the last input states recorded at the moment the firmware task died and stopped recording.

    So it's possible there would be a way forward if you wanted to pursue it, but you would have to find an attorney willing to take it on, and evaluate how much evidence you could supply. The attorney might want to contact Barr to find out how much they already may or may not know about how the Prius firmware compares to the Camry code they looked at in Bookout. It was very laborious for the people working that case, as only certain people could be allowed to examine the code, and only in a specially secured room.

    -Chap
     
    #89 ChapmanF, Dec 1, 2018
  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    This also relates to why I asked if he has a copy of any readout from a recording unit. If some important firmware task(s) froze up, there would likely be clues of frozen readings in the recording, or even the whole recording ending prematurely before the car came to a rest. Though such clues are not guaranteed to appear.
     
    #90 fuzzy1, Dec 1, 2018
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you need f lee bailey
     
    #91 bisco, Dec 1, 2018
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  12. Johnny Cakes

    Johnny Cakes Senior Member

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    Even that hack wouldn't touch this case!!

    Attorneys are motivated by money, which is generated by a one-third cut of the damages awarded. Even if the attorney won this case, no one died or suffered substantial injury(thankfully) and so the damages just aren't there.

    The only profitable angle would be to play it as a class-action product liability, but then you get back to the facts of this particular incident, the shortcomings of which have been discussed in previous replies.

    Methinks the last chapter in this story has been written.
     
    #92 Johnny Cakes, Dec 1, 2018
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  13. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    As a reformed misogynist, I will not comment on your wife's actions.

    I will say that you, sir, are observing in a good manner! You are a good husband !
     
    #93 Bill Norton, Dec 1, 2018
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  14. subjective

    subjective Member

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    Please understand I appreciate all the information assistance given to us by Prius Chat members. Early in the ownership of this 2011 Prius we had head lite failure caused twice by the Toyota poorly engineered head lite wiring harness in which members of this publication informed me that there was a service bulletin on this issue. We were not informed of this by Toyota. My wife or I or both of us or our grand daughter could have been injured or Killed by this Toyota engineering failure. The wiring harness was fortunately REPLACED IN TIME. THANK YOU
     
    #94 subjective, Dec 2, 2018
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  15. subjective

    subjective Member

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    I now have in my possession the technical data from Bosh on pre crash data which shows -5 to 0 seconds. -4.4 sec. 1.2 mph, brake switch on. accelerator rate 0.78, engine rpm 1200. -3.4 sec brake switch on, speed 1.2 mph, -2.4 sec. brake switch on, -1.4 sec. brake switch off, 0.4 sec brake switch off, 0 time 3.7 mph brake switch on, engine speed 1200, accelerator rate .78. In the pre crash data from -4.4 sec to 0 sec the accelerator rate was a constant exact 0.78 the same through the whole recording was on most of this recorded event except for -1.4 sec and -0.4 sec. I do not profess to be expert at the evaluation of this data BUT it is obvious that the accelerator rate is constant at .78 and my wife was attempting to brake during most of the event, probably pumping the brake at -1.4 sec to 0.4 sec which corresponds to what I think I saw. It seems obvious to me that Toyota's conclusion of this event is flawed and my wife is not responsible for this anomaly!
     
    #95 subjective, Dec 4, 2018
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    that does look like the car was moving with the brake on except for one point. is there someone you can discuss it with?
    do you agree that the car was only going 1.2 mph over the embankment?

    i don't know what the acceleration rate value means, could one foot have been on the gas and the other on the brake?
    i thought if you wee braking, gas was disabled

    rpm's seem pretty low

    too bad there is only brake switch data, and not pressure. it looks like the car was moving at idle, and very little brake pressure. maybe a stuck pedal
     
    #96 bisco, Dec 4, 2018
  17. subjective

    subjective Member

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    I have a digital volt meter in the car and a yellow top spiral wound battery reading 14v that day. Thank you
     
    #97 subjective, Dec 4, 2018
  18. subjective

    subjective Member

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    I am sure she did not have one foot on the gas and one on the brake as she has never done that. In an emergency she might put both feet on the brake but not at this speed and I doubt the accuracy of the speed shown but my estimate of the speed is about 12 mph and less.
     
    #98 subjective, Dec 4, 2018
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    agreed, those rpm's look like idle
     
    #99 bisco, Dec 4, 2018
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    not sure what you're responding to here?
     
    #100 bisco, Dec 4, 2018
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