NEW!!! Service Bulletin for Engine Knocking at Startup T-SB 0012-10

Frank, thanks for your input, i will look at the PCV system next. A dry compression check was done originally when trying to find the problem with the #2 cylinder misfire, which ended up being the leaking head gasket, which is now resolved as mentioned above. The compression was fine across all cylinders. ( I don't remember the number, 150?) I would just live with it, but now it is throwing the code for EGR system, which is probably plugging up due to excessive oil consumption. BTW, the Certech Gels did not work, but got my money refunded no problem. Bob at Certech thinks my problem is not a cylinder wall issue either. With a bad pcv system, what is the max amount of oil you could go thru, as i am at about 1 quart every 600-700 miles? bisco, i think the oil catch can will be next in line after the pcv system check. Will that help with consumption?

 

I have a 2012 Gen 3 that I bought new in September of 2012. I now have 105K miles in it and my warranties ran out 5K miles ago. With about 60K mikes on I had this knocking on start up twice (but no in sequence) in the morning. I live in SW Florida and when this happened the temp was probably in the 50’s, not nearly as cold as the other posters mentioned. I have an appointment with my dealer’s service department to do the 100K service. When I made this appointment I hadn’t seen all this talk about the engine knocking and basically had forgotten about it. From what I’ve read on PriusChat there may be an extension on the warranty regarding TSB-0012-10. When I experienced the noise I mentioned it to my service advisor but I don’t think he made any note of it happening. I will be interested to hear what he says about it when I take it for service on 6/28/18.

 

So will we! .....

 

Just be prepared for a replacement egr valve and nothing else.

This will not solve the problem, so if you are looking to keep your Prius long term, look to do the following:

• Egr circuit cleaning from cooler through intake manifold
• Install oil catch can
• Follow the @NutzAboutBolts videos for all other service

Good luck and keep us posted .

 

Ditto. It is so random that it would be difficult to pin point on my two. Yes, it has an extended warranty for that item.
However my 2012 was traded for a 2016 and my 2011 was given to my daughter (she had two episodes in two years). I bought the 125K warranties for both since the knocking issue was never resolved.
2016s I will drive to 100K and trade them for the 5th generation or small hybrid truck.

 

I have saved and filed all my service records for the past 6 years and today I went through each one and there wasn’t a single reference to the knocking I had a couple of years ago. So in light of this I doubt I will have any success in getting satisfaction from my dealer. If there was something in my records of me mentioning this I might have a chance but now being 5K out from coverage I will be really surprised if they are willing to even listen to me. I will let you know the results after my appointment on Thursday 6/28/18.

 

Were you able to get this resolved at your appointment on 06/28? It shouldn't matter that you are past the 100K warranty, Toyota sent me a recall notice for this problem and it warranted the issue until 150K.
I had already had the issue and the problem was supposed to be fixed, but I have experienced the issue again. Both times that I have had the problem it has occurred after I moved the car out of the driveway to let my dad out, then moving the car back in to the driveway and not driving it anywhere the rest of the day. I think it has something to do with not allowing the car to run long enough before turning it off, not the temperature outside, both times it occurred with me the overnight temp. was 50 or more.

 

correct. also, see the threads regarding egr/intake cleaning, and danlatu's oil catch can.

 

Yeah this is something I avoid like the plague. The one time I noticed a knock was after just that scenario. This was pre EGR cleaning, intake manifold cleaning, and Oil Catch Can install, fwiw.

I've become very adept at moving the car around without engine start-up, just doing little 10 seconds bursts. I've never timed it (I should) but it appears the car has roughly 15 seconds after start-up before the engine starts.

I just wish it was more generous, say 60 seconds.

Yup.

 

Unfortunately my service guy was off that day and I know the service lady I ended up scheduling with would have no clue what I would be talking about. So I have basically given up on the idea of pursuing this. If something develops and the knocking returns I will approach it then. Meanwhile, from everything I have read, I doubt Toyota will do anything about it. Sorry I couldn’t have given a more positive report!

 

I'm new to this chat and don't know much about cars at all but this knocking sound started happening to me 2 months ago. I took it into the dealership and they said I needed to replace the intake manifold according to TSB00112 my 2010 Prius was at 151,000 miles and they wouldn't grandfather me under the warranty. Since it cost over $700 I decided to go else where. I went to a local mechanic a friend recommended and they changed the spark plugs, didn't work, then they changed the ignition coil, didn't work. Then they said try using a higher octaine gas, didn't work. Finally they were at a loss so I decided better go back to Toyota and have the manifold replaced. Well I did and low and behold it didn't work. So when I took it back to have them fix the issue that the new manifold didn't fix, they told me a new service code has come up P0302 (along with the previous codes that had initially come up: P0300 & P0301) they said they did a block test which he said failed. So now the service manager is telling me at minimum they need to tear down and replace the head gasket which will cost 3,500-$4,000 and he said that may not even be the issue it could even be that I need a whole new engine at $7,000! What!?!? My car is not even worth that! And I still owe another $6,000 to pay it off (we just bought it used 2 yrs ago). The service manager told me that it wasn't worth the fix and called my car "basically a total loss". When I told him how frustrated I was bc I bought Toyota since they are supposed to be reliable, how is this happening? He told me "my situation was an anomole". The block test was fine before they replaced the manifold this all happened when I took it in 4 days after they replaced the manifold. The gasket was fine before they replaced the manifold according to their records. Can anyone help me? Am I being taken advantage of? Could they have messed up while making the repair? I have all my paperwork and notes plus the original owner and myself have taken the car in every 5-10,000 miles for check-ups, This car has been very well maintained. I've read talk in this thread about an oil catch can and an engine mount fix or TSB 0027-16. Will any of that help? Do I need to report this as fraud in the state of CA? Any help on what I can do? It's our only car right now, we are currently renting a car for transportation. Thanks for any help.

 

Here's a thread on P030* codes, 2nd gen but similar.

Stumped by P0301 and P0302 | PriusChat

Read through the above; it's 2nd gen, but related to those codes.

Did the dealership mention "compression" or "leak-down" tests? Both of these are used to diagnose engine head gasket issues.

When the dealership says a new engine would be $7000, I wonder if they just mentioned that number in conversation, or was that a firm quote: $7000 sounds like a rough number for a new engine, it'd likely be higher, and that's not including labour. The path more travelled is to get a low mileage salvage engine.

Regarding the intake manifold replacement, that seems a wasted/misguided expense, perhaps you can get some leverage with the dealership regarding that.

If you haven't yet, contact corporate Toyota, see what they say. Show them all your paperwork from the dealership. The independent mechanic's work too could be mentioned, but I'd think that's beyond their scope of responsibility. They may get the dealership more "on their toes", and might be able to defray some costs.

 

By block test, they mean cylinder compression test? If this is indeed what's failing, it could very well be the head gasket. Other worn out parts, like piston rings, can also cause a failing compression test.

A blown head-gasket often comes with other symptoms - oil in coolant, coolant in oil, or bubbles/overflow of coolant when the engine is started and radiator cap is off. A good place to start your research is youtube videos about diagnosing head gasket failures. See if the symptoms align with your car. Also note that a bad head gasket is usually not fixed long term simply by replacing it. Head gasket failures usually occur due to engine overheating and warping of the engine blocks. To fix, the blocks have to be machined flat again.

There are a large number of things that can cause engine misfires - could be bad or simply dirty MAF sensor, a timing issue like worn camshafts. Research causes of engine misfires. The Prius is pretty much like other cars when it comes to possible causes.

 

Welcome to Prius Chat .

Some questions:

• How stable is the engine coolant?
• Are you the diy type?
• Do you take your car to a specific mechanic?
• The egr circuit probably also needs to be cleaned. Have you considered cleaning that?

One shop that has done this work if you can’t or don’t want to is Hybrid Pit outside of Anaheim (since you are down south). @RightOnTime and @sfv41901 are the proprietors there and they’ve done plenty of egr circuit work.

Might be worth a private message or call to their shop for a consultation .

Good luck and keep us posted .

 

Apparently this doesn't seem to be a fraud case but you should definitely let Toyota corporate know about your problems. Maybe they'll reimburse you for the intake manifold that was unnecessarily installed.

 

McGeorge Toyota (online Toyota dealership parts department) sells the intake manifold (I'd assume the latest revision?) for just under $200 (manifold):

Engine Parts for 2010 Toyota Prius | Toyota Parts

(item #32 in the above, apparently comes with new gasket)

The "official" labour rate for intake manifold replacement I would estimate at an hour, two at the most. $700 for a new intake mainifold installed seem pretty steep: $400~450 would be more reasonable, even at full retail cost for the intake manifold.

I've done the removal/install myself, it's not that hard. Here's a video, by @NutzAboutBolts, on how to do it:

Nutz About Bolts Prius Maintenance Videos | PriusChat

(video #24 in the above link)

The video shows disconnecting coolant lines on the throttle body, which isn't necessary: the throttle body can just be unbolted and tied out of the way, with coolant lines still attached. Also, he removes a bolt at the bottom of the dipstick guide tube: second time I did manifold removal I found you could just pull this tube out of a clip?

 

after talking with toyota corporate, go back to the private mechanic and ask her opinion. if she concurs on the head gasket, ask about a salvage engine install.

 

Thank you for your help. No they did not mention compression or leak down tests. My service manager was talking about buying a used engine and the cost of $7,000 was just an estimate in conversation. He told me I shouldn't waste the money since the car already has 150,000 miles on it. I'm just concerned that the car had no gasket problems and passed the block test before they replaced the manifold and as soon as I took it back it didn't pass the block test. I'm planning on talking with The GM of that Toyota dealership as well as corporate. I just don't know anything about cars and don't want to look like an idiot.

 

sadly, my outcome was indeed a failing HG. I hope you have more a more pleasant resolution


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